Sustainable car business: USA's Local Motor

[Benji_DCP]

IMO, a lot of thing went awry as this country was trying to develop its own indigenous automobile manufacturing industry... the state or government should have fully supported and nurtured it back then in the early to mid 80's. We would still need government's support to level the playing field so that intrepid entrepreneurs could catch up with entrenched foreign car brands and manufacturers that have establish themselves here.

[jpdm]

whatever dude

i had to lower my estimate from 4M dollars to 2M PESOS for your examples to come out

goes to show how little capital one can raise here

And whatever too, dude.

And goes to show how little your confidence on the capability of Pinoys and how little you understand the capacity of Pinoys to go beyond expectations.

Your crab mentality only makes your ideas too pathetic to me.

I have ignored many times your warlock-like nonsense, doomsday posts, utter negativity and personal insults.

And Im not impress with your inferior or loser ideas reeking with crab mentality and negativity. I have never and I MEAN NEVER got any positive reply from you!

You make me sick.

And if you are a Pinoy, with your negativity and bigotry, you make me puke.

DUDE.

This thread is a venue of where we can exchange ideas that will improve the sorry state of the true Philippine local auto industry.

[jpdm]

IMO, a lot of thing went awry as this country was trying to develop its own indigenous automobile manufacturing industry... the state or government should have fully supported and nurtured it back then in the early to mid 80's. We would still need government's support to level the playing field so that intrepid entrepreneurs could catch up with entrenched foreign car brands and manufacturers that have establish themselves here.

Its already given that government support is needed.

Right at this moment, we cannot expect anything from Arroyo and the BOI to help the local industry. Even the foreign dominated CAMPI is crying foul.

But there is always that hope that a new administration can rectify the errors of past administration.

Thats why Im hoping that that in 2010, the new administration will take a serious look as to how the auto industry will be revived and strengthened.

The government does not need to put up money to support the industry. All the local auto industry need is some definite policies ( on tariffs, incentives, taxes, subsidies) coming from the government.

[ghosthunter]

Its already given that government support is needed.

Right at this moment, we cannot expect anything from Arroyo and the BOI to help the local industry. Even the foreign dominated CAMPI is crying foul.

But there is always that hope that a new administration can rectify the errors of past administration.

Thats why Im hoping that that in 2010, the new administration will take a serious look as to how the auto industry will be revived and strengthened.

The government does not need to put up money to support the industry. All the local auto industry need is some definite policies ( on tariffs, incentives, taxes, subsidies) coming from the government.

In all honestly, I don't think anything new will happen with the conclusion of the 2010 presidential elections. It would just be the same thing with a new cast of characters, unfortunately.

[Benji_DCP]

Its already given that government support is needed.

Right at this moment, we cannot expect anything from Arroyo and the BOI to help the local industry. Even the foreign dominated CAMPI is crying foul.

But there is always that hope that a new administration can rectify the errors of past administration.

Thats why Im hoping that that in 2010, the new administration will take a serious look as to how the auto industry will be revived and strengthened.

The government does not need to put up money to support the industry. All the local auto industry need is some definite policies ( on tariffs, incentives, taxes, subsidies) coming from the government.

Although they say hope runs eternal, but as I view it, we have missed the boat. So for a local company to catch-up or compete head-on with global car brands, (even with government incentives/subsidies) it may be deemed as a losing proposition by any or most businessmen.

Besides, in this era of globalization, certain policies may be viewed as protectionism by other nations.

So for a local car manufacturer to survive and prosper, I believe it must concentrate on a niche segment of the automotive industry, and this should be the "green" vehicles like electric powered vehicles (although I still think they are not totally-green) may be this country's path to creating its own car brand.

Yes, we will just have to wait for a new government to be elected into power. Hopefully, none of the same old banana bunch.

[jpdm]

Although they say hope runs eternal, but as I view it, we have missed the boat. So for a local company to catch-up or compete head-on with global car brands, (even with government incentives/subsidies) it may be deemed as a losing proposition by any or most businessmen.

Besides, in this era of globalization, certain policies may be viewed as protectionism by other nations.

Fact: we have one of the largest economies (GDP nominal and GDP per PPP) in the world. Please check IMF-WB, UN, CIA stats. OFW remittances official 16-18 billion for this year.92 million pop and growing. 10-12 million Pinoys abroad.

and this:

The Next Eleven (or N-11) are eleven countries—Bangladesh, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Philippines, South Korea, Turkey, and Vietnam—identified by Goldman Sachs investment bank as having a high potential of becoming the world's largest economies in the 21st century along with the BRICs. The bank chose these states, all with promising outlooks for investment and future growth, on December 12, 2005.
Goldman Sachs used macroeconomic stability, political maturity, openness of trade and investment policies, and the quality of education as criteria. The N-11 paper is a follow-up to the bank's 2003 paper on the four emerging "BRIC" economies, Brazil, Russia, India, and China.[1]


source: wikipedia

IMHO, you miss my point that I never mentioned anything about a local company competing head on against global car brands. As you can see, Im only for the revival of the local auto industry. Or at most, reduce to a minimum our over dependence on imports (imported spareparts and vehicles)

The Thailand model seems to be the most practical for us to follow where the government will give incentives to all vehicle companies not just to assemble but to manufacture parts and completely built up units as well.

Of course nationalist like me would like to have the Japanese, Korean, Indian, Malaysian and Chinese models of eventually coming up with national champions ( Brand Philippines re: auto)but for a country like yours, I admit and you are correct that for now, we cant just do it.

About globalization, every country is given a leeway to come up with certain policies to protect its industries. Again, the US for instance, just recently imposed punitive tariffs against Chinese tire imports. On the other hand, China has imposed export subsidies on their exports to make their products cheaper overseas. Farm subsidies abound in First World countries. Japan and Korea are notorious for protectionist policies. Our ASEAN neighbors are much more restrictive than ours.

Now, how come the guru and main proponent of globalization is imposing protectionist policies? (Buy American made)Plainly because to protect American companies, jobs and income. On the other hand, how come America or Japan are telling us that protectionism is bad? Because we might hurt their multinationals and interests. Simply, double standard.

Anyway, this means we have the right to do the same. And save Pinoy jobs and income.

But this country of ours under Arroyo just opened widely the flood gates for imports that are slowly but surely destroying all the remaining industries that we have.

Results: in 2003-2006 poverty actually increased in the Philippines; Trade deficits run at around 8-12 billion dollars; Budget deficit is at 300 billion by 2009; around 2-4 straight years decline in industrial output.national debt at around 4.3 trillion pesos (with 54 billion dollar foreign debt.).

I am only advocating for the return of manufacturing here. And it doesnt matter if the japanese, American, Korean and Chinese will do it for us (like in Thailand and Taiwan). But of course, I also want to see Pinoys competing side by side or complementing them by supplying the spare parts.

So for a local car manufacturer to survive and prosper, I believe it must concentrate on a niche segment of the automotive industry, and this should be the "green" vehicles like electric powered vehicles (although I still think they are not totally-green) may be this country's path to creating its own car brand.

Thats the main reason why I started this thread. Perhaps, we can just go into a niche like parts manufacturing and on particular segment like e-jeepneys, tricycle manufacturing, sports car, AUV, humvee-wrangler-owner type jeeps, jeepneys (new design) and automotive parts (like Taiwan). Can we hope to build an all Pinoy made CBU. Maybe. But not now.

Yes, we will just have to wait for a new government to be elected into power. Hopefully, none of the same old banana bunch.

I am very hopeful of a Noynoy Aquino or a Manny Villar presidency.

[ocanursjr]

dude...ang ibig mo bang sabihin e...tigilan na ang pag-isip at pag-pangarap ng mga pilipino na makapagdevelop ng sariling sasakyan dahil mahihirap tayo at walang pera?

sa yo na lang yang concept mong yan.

Exactly Oyil, he was trying to point out how poor we are. He already shut the idea of making and developing the industry that will create more jobs and put us back in global competitiveness.

I don't know how many people like our dude Uls thinks. Plenty i think!

[uls]

^^

"put us back in global competitiveness"

haha

dude, if the Phils. wants to compete globally, sa dami ng industries, car manufacturing pa ang pipiliin ng Pinas?

kung sa sports, lalaban ka sa ibang bansa... para may laban ka, pipili ka ng sport kung saan ka magaling

what sports ba magaling ang Pinas?

boxing, billiards, bowling

so doon makipaglaban ang Pinas sa ibang bansa... kung saan magaling talaga ang Pinas... malaki ang chances manalo

car manufacturing isnt our sport, dude...

not globally, not even regionally

we can compete globally in service industries like BPO, but not in car manufacturing

DUDE

[OyiL]

^^

"put us back in global competitiveness"

haha

dude, if the Phils. wants to compete globally, sa dami ng industries, car manufacturing pa ang pipiliin ng Pinas?

kung sa sports, lalaban ka sa ibang bansa... para may laban ka, pipili ka ng sport kung saan ka magaling

what sports ba magaling ang Pinas?

boxing, billiards, bowling

so doon makipaglaban ang Pinas sa ibang bansa... kung saan magaling talaga ang Pinas... malaki ang chances manalo

car manufacturing isnt our sport, dude...

not globally, not even regionally

we can compete globally in service industries like BPO, but not in car manufacturing

DUDE

dude...wag muna compete. wala pa nga e. syempre satisfy muna yung sa local demand sa atin...common sense lang dude...nobody here suggested immediate competition, after the conception of the idea, with global or regional players in the automotive industry. di naman tangengot yung mga mahihirap na pinoy dito e. bago nag-compete sa boxing ang mga boxers natin globally, nag compete yan locally. baby steps nga e. kundi ka naman ba naman.......................................





.....................mag-iisip. kailangan may strategy. ikaw me suggest ka ba na strategy? ..........meron pala:

[uls]

dude...wag muna compete. wala pa nga e. syempre satisfy muna yung sa local demand sa atin...common sense lang dude...nobody here suggested immediate competition, after the conception of the idea, with global or regional players in the automotive industry. di naman tangengot yung mga mahihirap na pinoy dito e. bago nag-compete sa boxing ang mga boxers natin globally, nag compete yan locally. baby steps nga e. kundi ka naman ba naman.......................................





.....................mag-iisip. kailangan may strategy. ikaw me suggest ka ba na strategy? ..........meron pala:

dude, read carefully

ocanursjr:

Exactly Oyil, he was trying to point out how poor we are. He already shut the idea of making and developing the industry that will create more jobs and put us back in global competitiveness.

he's the one who wants Phil. car makers to compete globally

not me

i think your above reply should be directed at him

[OyiL]

dear uls dude,

the whole sentence was this:

"Exactly Oyil, he was trying to point out how poor we are. He already shut the idea of making and developing the industry that will create more jobs and put us back in global competitiveness"

. it refers to you and your posts.

"put us back in global competitiveness"

eto lang ang quote mo sa kanya. your response was directed to this. you missed his point. ilag ka kasi ng ilag.

this is part of your post:

car manufacturing isnt our sport, dude...

not globally, not even regionally

we can compete globally in service industries like BPO, but not in car manufacturing

. this statement is a total put down of our countries' abilities even before we can start something to prove otherwise. to me, this statement reveals exactly how you think of your fellow filipinos - na isang lahi na walang pag-asa. are you a filipino?

[ocanursjr]

* OyiL

Do I have to react with his posts? Huwag na siguro.

Sorry mods ot na ko!

[uls]

dear uls dude,

the whole sentence was this: . it refers to you and your posts.

eto lang ang quote mo sa kanya. your response was directed to this. you missed his point. ilag ka kasi ng ilag.

this is part of your post:
. this statement is a total put down of our countries' abilities even before we can start something to prove otherwise. to me, this statement reveals exactly how you think of your fellow filipinos - na isang lahi na walang pag-asa. are you a filipino?

again, i'm not the one who wants the Phils. to compete with other countries in car manufacturing

the guy above was the one who said:

Exactly Oyil, he was trying to point out how poor we are. He already shut the idea of making and developing the industry that will create more jobs and put us back in global competitiveness.

if you want to put the Phils. back to global competitiveness, focus on industries where the Phils. is actually GOOD at.

like BPO, tourism, mining, skilled labor exports

again, motor vehicle manufacturing is NOT our sport

hindi yan ang linya ng Pinas

may kanya kanyang linya ang mga bansa sa mundo

there are many countries that do not produce their own motor vehicles and they are doing fine

. this statement is a total put down of our countries' abilities even before we can start something to prove otherwise. to me, this statement reveals exactly how you think of your fellow filipinos - na isang lahi na walang pag-asa. are you a filipino?

just coz i said the Phils can't compete globally in car manufacturing doesnt mean the Phils. can't compete globally in other industries

dude, you're too emotional

[architect]

C'mon guys. The topic is an interesting one and both sides present valid points. Let the debate focus on these instead of personalities.

[OyiL]

focusing on just where were good at is not a good idea. di talaga tayo aahon niyan. we have to expand.

[ghosthunter]

focusing on just where were good at is not a good idea. di talaga tayo aahon niyan. we have to expand.

How can pinoys even expand when we cannot be globally competitive in areas where pinoys are competent in? We are always hampered by bureaucracy, government red-tape and the handicap of a small, limited, and geographically scattered local market.

[OyiL]

How can pinoys even expand when we cannot be globally competitive in areas where pinoys are competent in? We are always hampered by bureaucracy, government red-tape and the handicap of a small, limited, and geographically scattered local market.

e di ganyan na lang ba?

[ghosthunter]

e di ganyan na lang ba?

Would you want me to add the other market forces that limit a product's growth and market performance?

[jpdm]

if you want to put the Phils. back to global competitiveness, focus on industries where the Phils. is actually GOOD at.

like BPO, tourism, mining, skilled labor exports

just coz i said the Phils can't compete globally in car manufacturing doesnt mean the Phils. can't compete globally in other industries

Hypothetically, in the next five years or 10 years or 20 years or 50 years, when poverty was reduced to minimum and incomes in the Philippines across economic classes attained plus technology and capital became more accessible,is it not possible at least supply adequately the domestic auto market by domestic vehicle manufacturing without really thinking of competing globally in car manufacturing?

In my previous post, I mentioned using the Thailand model, where domestic vehicle manufacturing has progressed immensely despite the fact that we started earlier than them and Thailang population iis smaller than the Philippines.

How can pinoys even expand when we cannot be globally competitive in areas where pinoys are competent in? We are always hampered by bureaucracy, government red-tape and the handicap of a small, limited, and geographically scattered local market.

IMHO, we are reaching the number one position in the global BPO industry. In the global labor market, we join India, China, Mexico in global labor deployment with China and India raking huge remittances from their OFW.

Anyway, what are the alternatives then to make us globally competitive and expand beyond our competency?

[jpdm]

dude...wag muna compete. wala pa nga e. syempre satisfy muna yung sa local demand sa atin...common sense lang dude...nobody here suggested immediate competition, after the conception of the idea, with global or regional players in the automotive industry. di naman tangengot yung mga mahihirap na pinoy dito e. bago nag-compete sa boxing ang mga boxers natin globally, nag compete yan locally. baby steps nga e. kundi ka naman ba naman.......................................





.....................mag-iisip. kailangan may strategy. ikaw me suggest ka ba na strategy? ..........meron pala:

Actually, this is the most plausible strategy right now and the next decade or more. and that is supply and satisfy local demand first.

Only 50 percent of the brand new market (I forgot to date when CAMPI or MVPMAP made this assessment. I think it was in 2007) is served by CKDs and the rest of the 50 percent is served by CBUs.

Only 30-40% of the CKD has local content including labor, (forgot the date of the study). Which means, this will be the logical target of proponents to develop a local industry , which is to reduce over-dependence on imported vehicles and parts.