Engine design at accessories? kaya na ba?

[JJCarEnthusiast]

meron naba tayong nag dedesign ng engine at kayang mag build ng engine? marami na ding naka gawa ng mga prototype pero engines (and platform) are from donor vehicles. may nakakagawa na din ng chassis. check. engine? accessories and amenities? yeah i hope so.

[rhuwrx]

An engine designed from scratch? As in 100% filipino designed and made? wala pa yata sir. Kahit yung mga simple na 2 stroke wala pa yata tayo.

Una, napakamahal at time consuming mag design at magfabricate ng four stroke cycle na engine from scratch, aabutin ng taon at limpak limpak na salapi para makapag design at makapagfabricate at hindi pa sigurado na magiging reliable ito. In fact car manufacturers have entire divisions dedicated to "powertrain development" with hundreds of engineers.

Pangalawa, wala or kulang tayo sa 3rd party mga industries na may kakayahang gumawa or mag mass produce ng engine parts like engine block, pistons, crankshafts etc. Lahat puro imported tayo.

Pero malay natin meron palang pinoy abroad na nagkaroon ng experience sa pag design ng engines at one day he/she could share knowledge on that matter.

[ghosthunter]

If you are looking for a potential 100% pinoy car today... you will have to look at electric cars. They are simpler to design and build.

[JJCarEnthusiast]

yes engine design from scratch.

the time alloted for the research and designing will be a big step in our automotive industry. kung malaking pera man ang gagastusin at matagal ang r&d nito, ang kalalabasan naman ay isang OP engine. very big achievement which will benefit us a lifetime. marami na tayong magagaling na assemblers. pati designers madami na din. sana engine naman. pag na tapos ito we will be our own mitsubishi toyota or honda or what.

kahit sa design lang muna mag umpisa. may kilala akong mekaniko working in JAC motors (the chinese brand). he once mentioned to us that they will be designing a small diesel engine. he didn't mention for what, or will there be a prototype, nor did they finish it. after that i haven't heard anything. that was a long time ago.

[rhuwrx]

Kaya siguro kung sa kaya, ang pinaka bottomline lang dito ay kung sino ang taong gustong gumastos nang ganoon kalaking pera para mangyari ito.
Para kasing nagtapon ka lang ng pera pagtitingnan mo ang practical point of view nito.

Sa tingin ko mas ok yung idea ni sir ghosthunter, or let's skip the current technology now and design and invest in the future of autombiles. We can be "Pioneers" instead of merely being "innovators" of existing technologies, baka dun pa tayo yumaman. just my .02 cents.

[wildthing]

ganang sa akin lang, medyo mahirap kasi kulang ang typical academic knowledge to create an "engine"..

pero kung kaya kong gumawa... I'd like to make a 1200 engine pero 12 cylinder hehehe... maliit na engine pero kayang maghi-RPM siguro yung ganito.

[JJCarEnthusiast]

GH's idea seems good. EVs hmm...

yes tama ka din, we can be pioneers of our own technology. then we should design powerful EVs, like the tesla roadster lol. just kidding..


but i am aware that the engines reliabliity is the first concern

[ghosthunter]

GH's idea seems good. EVs hmm...

yes tama ka din, we can be pioneers of our own technology. then we should design powerful EVs, like the tesla roadster lol. just kidding..

but i am aware that the engines reliabliity is the first concern

There is more than just a "first" concern. You will also have to consider the existing market where large companies have spent millions of dollars just to get it's engine into production That includes testing for everything including reliability, fuel consumption, emissions, safety, performance, durability in extremes, etc.

[marg]

If you are looking for a potential 100% pinoy car today... you will have to look at electric cars. They are simpler to design and build.

Kahit Electric motor for cars, hindi kaya gumawa ang Pinoy from scratch.

[JJCarEnthusiast]

we have a lot of skilled engineers. what is lacking is funding and support from the government. so sad the government don't bother that much to spend for reviving our automotive industry.

[uls]

the govt doesnt have money

and there's no money to be made

if there's money to be made in producing a 100% pinoy car (on an industrial scale), then the private sector would have bet a lot of money on it already

[niky]

Designing an engine for yourself from scratch, and having it fabricated at local machine shops, is not impossible. Just assume that minor components like bearings, valve springs, valves, bolts, wires, ignition coils, EGR-valves, throttle and accessories will be off-the-shelf parts... to keep costs down.

Then use an open-source ECU, like MegaSquirt.

But designing such a thing, then making it production-ready and cheap enough to manufacture that you won't have to spend over 300,000 pesos per engine, while making sure that it produces enough power cleanly enough that you can use it for export... (not to mention the durability aspect)... that's something else, altogether...

Many small-time manufacturers have found, to their chagrin, that building your own engine when you're only going to sell a small number of cars, is a waste of time and money.

Only two major small-run sportscar manufacturer make their own engines... TVR and Caparo. Saleen, Gumpert, Pagani, Wiesmann, Noble, Lotus and etcetera... buy their engines from others.

And here we're talking cars that are expensive enough to pay for their own development. For major manufacturers, running on slimmer margins, developing your own engine from scratch is a huge expense... so huge that the Koreans and Malaysians licensed technology from Mitsubishi and Mazda to give them a technology base... so huge that Chrysler and Mitsubishi partnered with Hyundai to develop their current world engine.

[uls]

if there are locals who have the equipment, labor and expertise to build an engine from scratch, it's those well known machine shops like AER or Precision Automotive or Barleta

but why bother?

if anyone of them does build an engine from scratch, then what?

mass produce it?

50,000 units?

who the hell is gonna put money on the table?

who the hell is gonna buy 50,000 Philippine made engines?

--

come on

what's with the pinoy pride thing?

Wanna build a 100% pinoy engine just for the sake na masabi na kaya ng pinoy gumawa ng makina from scratch?

it doesnt make sense

to make business sense, look for the demand first

go to some foreign car company with your prototype engine

assuming they are impressed with your prototype... offer them a good price, and get a contract signed

fly back to the country, walk into a commercial bank, show them the signed contract, and tell them you need 1 billion pesos

[marg]

The reality is, mahina ang Pilipinas sa Engineering. Sa Politika at Showbiz magaling.

[uls]

^^

sigurado may magrereply sayo ng "magaling ang pinoy, talented ang pinoy"

sabi ng threadstarter:

we have a lot of skilled engineers. what is lacking is funding and support from the government

i think may mga skilled na tao sa atin who can really build an engine from scratch

thing is, there's no point in doing so

[JJCarEnthusiast]

kung naman palagi ang mentality natin walang mangyayari satin. i mean not to only speak about the engines. but the automotive industry as a whole. those established companies also started as wala and they have also no market for their products. what do we differ from them? maybe you can say, our financial status. heck if we do something, then something might happen. don't just think for the market, for know. kung ngayon maiisip mong walang market. e wala naman talagang market kahit iisipin mo after 10 years or what. wala talagang market. pero if we have done it, when weve proven it, market will just come.

[uls]

so just build pinoy car and hope people will buy it?

hindi ba madami na gumawa nyan?

what happened to them?

wala

come on... just read through those numerous car comment threads here in tsikot forums

notice how high people's standards are when it comes to cars?

pati cars made by Toyota, Honda, BMW meron nagcocomplain ganito ganyan

if you're gonna build a car people will buy, better build one that's at par with AT LEAST a Hyundai

if the best you can do is build something at par with Chery or Geely, forget about it

I'm just being realistic

Pinoys can't even produce a car on the level of what the Chinese automakers can produce

At sa lagay na yan, China made cars are laughed at by pinoys

So a 100% pinoy car has to be MUCH BETTER than China made cars... for pinoys to even consider buying it

now, anyone out there care to finance the building of a plant and buying of equipment?

[JJCarEnthusiast]

there are a couple of good assemblers here. but unfortunately they do not have machines, they only use benders and hammer etc. alana motors corporation is one. they are building hummer h1 replicas. OTEP reviewed and rode many of them. he said that it has a better build quality and that the doors slam with respect, so on and so forth. filipino can make high quality products. if you don't belive that then i think you're in the wrong forum. peace man

[Horsepower]

Yung engineering skills (on the matter of it being good or bad), depende sa school at mental capacity ng tao yan. I'm sure there are a lot of universities here with workable engine prototypes esp UP system and other Science-oriented schools.

Financial capacity is altogether different.

True, it's more practical to source engines at this point.

What we can do is work with Hyundai (since their engines and technology are cheap but relatively sturdy) in exchange of some things. Quid pro quo.

[rhuwrx]

Imho, assembly is different from manufacturing. With assembly the parts and components used have already undergone r&d and are already "proven to work" or perform as expected. Using AMC as an example, if the donor car used is a nissan patrol, theoretically the AMC jeeps/hammers are expected to be as reliable and perform similarly to a patrol. Now, if everything AMC uses were designed and manufactured in-house from wipers to engines and suspension, reliability and performance could be worse or better.

But still, It can all be done, it all boils down to money, lots of it.