The 2010 MVDP: Feat. the "Filipino Car" or Philippine Brand Vehicles

[ghosthunter]

* gh

Try to read and understand what romski123 stand on the issue. Tagalog na yan baka di mo pa makuha ang puntos nya.

*ocanursjr

Try to read the linked thread below and understand what NIKY wrote and calculated on the issue that you & your friends have been hammering on.

How many "new" cars are smuggled?
http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71570

Facts & figures na yan. Not unfounded personal opinions.

[niky]

then the semi knocked down should be the way to go. they wont have to set-up a new plant toyota, mitsubishi, honda, nissan to be able to make the model available without importing.

Ideally, yes, and I support this. Unfortunately, that pesky free-trade zone law we signed into effectively removes the need for manufacturers to do this. Sadly. The free trade agreement should give us the chance to penetrate other markets... or would if the cost of doing business locally were actually competitive enough that we could do this. Hopefully the Chinese can be persuaded to use the Philippines as their ASEAN springboard.

huh? why would he ask himself the question "secondhand local vs secondhand imported" then? obviously, there is confusion here.

Why wouldn't he? What's the most common question you see here on tsikot when somebody asks about an import?

"Okay ba ang Pajero na Subic? Kumpara sa local?"

"Okay ba ang Honda Jazz na galing Japan? Mas maganda ba ito kaysa sa local?"

I don't know about you... but after years of seeing these questions, that's always the theme. Not whether they'd be better off buying secondhand or brand new. Take time to dig up the threads and see what the buyers are actually thinking.

secondhand subic pajeros vs secondhand local pajeros: meron ngang distinction. may bumibili pa rin nung secondhand local pajero dahil hindi converted. may bumibili nung seconhand subic pajero because they can have it for the same price as a local secondhand adventure, pero pajero na. so ang totoong magkatapat ay not the same model but the next lower model of the somewhat similar type. still they are competing with locally produced cars.

And they are still competing with secondhand cars. Not brand new ones.

again. its about letting go of their old cars to use the money to buy a new one as replacement. these old cars that they want to replace are bought by them brand new. you should always consider resale value when buying a car, especially if its brand new.

As I pointed out... the resale value of old cars and the asking prices are not negatively affected by Subic imports. Resale value does matter to some people, but it's a pointless proposition. Do I feel bad that my car's resale value is about 100k less than a comparable Honda's? Yes. Do I feel bad that my car's brand new selling price was about 150k less than a comparable Honda's? Obviously not.

The only cars nowadays with high resale value are economical cars. And these are usually cheap, bare models. Too bad we all missed the Picanto bandwagon... If you bought a Picanto when it was launched, resale value after three years was 100%. :hysterical: If all people cared about was resale value, nobody would buy anything except Honda Jazzes and Isuzu Crosswinds.

And yet the best-selling list is topped by Toyota Fortuners, Mitsubishi Monteros and Hyundai Tucsons, so apparently not all people feel that way.

Sure the Fort's resale is good for a luxury car, but losing half a million pesos in depreciation after just three years doesn't strike me as sound business sense. Whadayathink?

I wonder what BMW owners think when they lose around 1.5 million in residuals after three years of owning their stupidly expensive to maintain cars? They're probably thinking: "Maybe I should trade up to a new model... I want a red one this time..."

but he did say he sells something. then he mentioned subic imports. and he hasnt denied it yet.

I don't really care, it's up to him to confirm or deny it if he actually wants to. I just find it amusing that you're all so happy that he's said this... like it was the end of a Hardy Boy's mystery or something.

so why not just ask the local manufacturers to come up with a cheap model than can be bought brand new at the same price as subic imports.

Ideally, they should. But no amount of cost-cutting will get a brand new Pajero to cost as little as any secondhand Pajero.

And again, nobody looking at a secondhand Pajero is going to want a brand-new Vios, even if they're the same price.

port irene cars are taxed but lower. some people say that cars that come from here cannot be registered in manila. personally, i think they just went around legislation to have done it this way.

The government's problem. They're the ones who bollixed up the import laws and left the damn loopholes. Personally, I would favor allowing imports, then slap them with a 50% tax based on brand new value (escalating to the same 100% tax that high-end vehicles pay), rather than the stupid scrap value that importers claim them at, and force them to undergo a rigorous and (more importantly) expensive MOT-style test as they do in the UK. That would literally kill the market for secondhand Japanese imports... if they were forced to use brand-new equipment to convert to LHD and had to pay proper tax, they wouldn't be able to undercut the prices of local surplus cars.

The only buyers then, for imports, would be the collectors who crave rare cars which were not sold here... everyone else would go back to scrounging the classifieds for local. Everyone's happy.

nobody said that uls is a smuggler.

Innuendo is a wonderful thing, isn't it?
http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showp...&postcount=798

[ocanursjr]

ocanusjr, are you saying that you dont believe that uls sells imported used cars because he's in here in tsikot all the time?

How come he can sell a used cars? He's one of the many characters in tsikot.com 24/7...walang tulugan

He's sending us a message how legitimate businessman he is...isama mo na yung echo nya... kilala mo yan * OyiL

[uls]

How come he can sell a used cars? He's one of the many characters in tsikot.com 24/7...walang tulugan

He's sending us a message how legitimate businessman he is...isama mo na yung echo nya... kilala mo yan * OyiL

hahaha

obviously, sombody doesnt know how things work

somebody thinks you gotta be out there chasing clients all day to sell Japan imports

somebody doesnt know that all you need is yard, a small office, and a sign that says "Japan Surplus"

and an internet connection so you'll have something to do all day

somebody's thinking field salesman

hahahaha

[ocanursjr]

hahaha

obviously, sombody doesnt know how things work

somebody thinks you gotta be out there chasing clients all day to sell Japan imports

somebody doesnt know that all you need is yard, a small office, and a sign that says "Japan Surplus"

and an internet connection so you'll have something to do all day

somebody's thinking field salesman

hahahaha

Baka naman junk shop ang inooperate mo, aminin mo na kasi * uls. Kung sabagay japanese junk is the same owning a junk shop.

[uls]

Baka naman junk shop ang inooperate mo, aminin mo na kasi * uls. Kung sabagay japanese junk is the same owning a junk shop.

ay oo may timbangan ako dito

ang galing mo naman

sa sobra galing kailangan ka mag abroad kasi di mo kaya kumita dito

musta dyan sa Australia?

how's your middle class life?

are you able to make your mortgage payments? car payments?

assets minus liabilities, positive net worth ka pa ba?

[ocanursjr]

ay oo may timbangan ako dito

ang galing mo naman

sa sobra galing kailangan ka mag abroad kasi di mo kaya kumita dito

musta dyan sa Australia?

how's your middle class life?

are you able to make your mortgage payments? car payments?

assets minus liabilities, positive net worth ka pa ba?

nah... I don't need to tell you more about my life...
Hindi ako showy like you

[OyiL]

hahaha

obviously, sombody doesnt know how things work

somebody thinks you gotta be out there chasing clients all day to sell Japan imports

somebody doesnt know that all you need is yard, a small office, and a sign that says "Japan Surplus"

and an internet connection so you'll have something to do all day

somebody's thinking field salesman

hahahaha

no uls, he's just teasing you. i just let you know so this doesnt go too long. as you have more time spent in front of your desk than personally tending to your customers.

[romski123]

Why are you so focused on smuggling as a problem with those people buying new cars? The fact is, those 120,000 to 140,000 who are buying new cars will not be found buying a used surplus car, imported legally or otherwise.

that's precisely what happened during the hayday of SUB-ics. People who used to buy from the formal sector shifted to the smuggled 2nd hands. Short term gratification naman kasi after a few months sira na ang mga SUB-ics. But it did its job already. Umatras ang development. Our record was 1996 where we sold 160k brand new cars. then nagka-crisis , then when all our neighbors started to recover, we allowed 2nd hand vehicles. Di na tayo naka bangon.

Sayang talaga. In 1996 all the parts manufacturers were told by the car manufacturers to scale up. Kaya nagsi-invest sa mga bagong plant and equipment. Tapos pagbagsak ng car sales lugi lahat.

The crisis stopped the development of the local auto industry but the smuggled 2nd hand cars killed it.

[jpdm]

that's precisely what happened during the hayday of SUB-ics. People who used to buy from the formal sector shifted to the smuggled 2nd hands. Short term gratification naman kasi after a few months sira na ang mga SUB-ics. But it did its job already. Umatras ang development. Our record was 1996 where we sold 160k brand new cars. then nagka-crisis , then when all our neighbors started to recover, we allowed 2nd hand vehicles. Di na tayo naka bangon.

Sayang talaga. In 1996 all the parts manufacturers were told by the car manufacturers to scale up. Kaya nagsi-invest sa mga bagong plant and equipment. Tapos pagbagsak ng car sales lugi lahat.

The crisis stopped the development of the local auto industry but the smuggled 2nd hand cars killed it.

Definitely agree with your observations.

In its heydays (SUvics) , most second hand auto dealers here in our place just stopped selling local second hand autos and owner type jeeps.

Now, fortunately,I rarely see SUvics being sold. If there are SUVics being sold, they come from owners who bought it and want to get rid of it.

This is because, they say, these SUVIcs are very hard to maintain because of lack of spare parts or spare parts are very expensive.


Anyway, with the pronouncements made by President elect Noynoy that he will hit hard on tax evaders and especially smugglers (info about big time smugglers perhaps was provided by Arranza and Tanada. Notorious smugglers should be stopped in Port Irene, Cebu and Manila) that kill local industries and deny the government of much needed revenues is a welcome news.

There is also a plan to rationalize tax incentives, (hopefully eliminate the duty free importation of used vehicles and tax them heavily) will discourage the entry of used and smuggled imported vehicles.


There is nothing wrong if the assemblers and other local companies will sell all imported CBUs like HARI, Suzuki and those distributors of Chinese and European vehicles(because there is a demand and provide more choices to the buying public)as long as they pay the right taxes.

[jpdm]

Although a TRO was issued by a lower court but this is only temporary and will not stop the government especially the incoming Aquino administration to collect additional taxes and level the playing field for local assemblers and importers.

[SIZE=3]Court stops implementation of car tax scheme [/SIZE]

By Ronnel Domingo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 21:33:00 06/10/2010


THE MAKATI REGIONAL TRIAL COURT has stopped the implementation of a new tax scheme for imported vehicles, which is hoped to boost government revenue.


In a Temporary Restraining Order dated June 3, Judge Winlove Dumayas of the Makati RTC Branch 59 stopped the DOF and its agencies—the Bureau of Customs and Bureau of Internal Revenue—from enforcing Joint Order No. 1-2010.


The DOF order dated April 5 provides a uniform basis on the appraisal of imported vehicles. It is aimed at ensuring the proper collection of duties, value-added tax, excise tax and other levies due on such shipments.

The order sets the book value as basis of appraisal instead of transaction value.


This means taxes would be based on reference prices listed in books instead of the amount paid in acquiring the imported vehicles.


In issuing the TRO, the court was acting on a complaint filed by car importer Benjamin I. Navea Jr., who argued that the new tax policy would cause “grave and irreparable injury” to vehicle importers.


Navea claimed that due to the planned shift to the book value system, he would pay an estimated P1 million in taxes and duties for a brand-new Mitsubishi Pajero he was planning to import from the United States.


He said that based on transaction value, used under Republic Act No. 9135 that amended the tariff and customs code, he would pay about P500,000 only for the Pajero.


“There is absolutely nothing in (the code) that authorizes the use of reference price as primary method of valuation,” the importer said.


Further, Navea said the DOF order would have adverse impact on commercial automobile imports—and consequently, local buyers—since importers would have to shoulder higher duties and taxes, excise taxes and other charges because of the shift in the tax scheme.


http://business.inquirer.net/money/t...car-tax-scheme

[niky]

Although a TRO was issued by a lower court but this is only temporary and will not stop the government especially the incoming Aquino administration to collect additional taxes and level the playing field for local assemblers and importers.

Problem of our country... anybody can obtain a TRO for any reason.

With a shift to book value for the tax, income generation from imports should finally match the volume of business being done.

And book value valuation should be the final nail in the coffin for SUV-ics.

[niky]

Sandali lang... let's be clear:

What is considered "technical smuggling?"

The blue-plate cars aren't "technically smuggled". They were properly imported and declared. What is at issue here is fraud committed by the buyers... not the sellers.

If you were to penalize sellers for improper use of vehicles according to their registration... you'd have to fine a whole lot of manufacturers of AUVs and jeeps whose buyers use them in 'colorum' operations. (Yeah, I ask my customers if they're buying a motorcycle to use as a hold-up vehicle on every purchase...)

In other words... it's not technical smuggling. It's fraud on the part of the buyers.

Again: there's already a law against it... our government just can't make it work.

Diyan magaling naman ang mga legislators. They'll make up a whole bunch of laws as a knee-jerk reaction to issues, then they'll leave loopholes big enough (literally) to drive a bus through.

[jpdm]

The following are the to do list made by the Deloitte Study...

The Deloitte study entitled, “The Future of the Philippine Automotive Industry” premised its conclusion on some advantages and disadvantages prevailing in the country over its competitors.

[SIZE=3]TO DO LIST[/SIZE]

Stanford said that if the Philippines were to become a second regional hub for automotive production, there has to be a concerted effort between the government and the industry.


“The government should develop a time-bounded package of incentives to provide the industry with a breathing space in which to invest and achieve efficient scale, because government cannot give incentives without reasonable commitment from the industry,” Stanford stressed.


For now, however, Stanford said, “I got no sense if the industry is seeking to do that.”


[SIZE=3]Stanford said that the study has listed specific measures for the government to implement, but said it is still confidential.[/SIZE]


Assuming that all the plans and measures are implemented, the study said the local auto production is expected to reach [SIZE=3]500,000 by 2020[/SIZE] of which [SIZE=3]40 to 50 percent is exported[/SIZE]and a [SIZE=3]local content level of 60 percent creating a global scale auto industry[/SIZE][SIZE=3]. [/SIZE]





In terms of impact to the overall domestic economy, the Deloitte study modelling results point to the Philippines’ real GDP would be 6.3 percent higher than otherwise, average real wages throughout the Philippines economy would be 10.4 percent higher, employment would be 2.5 percent higher than otherwise, investment would be 6.5 percent higher, private consumption (a proxy for economic welfare) would be 4.4 per cent higher, aggregate exports would be 12 percent higher, and the impact on the consumer price index would be zero.


[SIZE=3]On the other hand, if an industry status quo is observed, Stanford said the Philippines can kiss its local auto industry goodbye in three years with a strong adverse impact on GDP due to job and revenue losses.[/SIZE]


THE REVIEW

The Deloitte study is just one of the inputs in the crafting of the new MVDP, but the review was not without pain because while all the MVDP participants favor to revisit the old program, opposing views cropped up undeniably to protect each own interests.


The division of the industry, which presented a solid front under CAMPI, was made clear as the review of the program goes into full swing. The 18-member CAMPI is a composite of CKD assemblers with CBU business and pure CBU traders. Those with similar interests grouped together.


CAMPI led by Elizabeth H. Lee had withdrawn its P100,000 contribution to the $500,000 study the industry had commissioned to the Deloitte.


Lee’s family is both an assembler and distributor of the Nissan commercial vehicles. The group is also the exclusive distributor of Volvo, GM and Hyundai in the Philippines.


Some CAMPI members were also dismayed over the initial Deloitte proposal calling for the imposition of a quota system wherein the volume of importation of CBU is tied up to the volume of locally assembled units, the grant of $1,000 subsidy for each locally assembled unit, among other issues.



These moves are seen to favor the local automotive assemblers and stunting the growth of CBU importers, the group said.


The division was later confirmed as the main proponents for the commissioning of the Deloitte study finally came out and formally organized themselves as the [SIZE=3]Philippine Automotive Competitiveness Council Inc. (PACCI), which is composed of the country’s major car assemblers that are also members of CAMPI.[/SIZE]


PACCI members are Toyota Motor Philippines Corp., Ford Motor Group Philippines, Mitsubishi Motors Philippines Corp., Isuzu Philippines Corp., Honda Cars Philippines Inc.



Together they account for 90 percent of the country’s total auto production volume.

Some disgruntled CAMPI members have complained of haste by which the program is being crafted.


This prompted DTI Secretary Peter B. Favila to order a thorough consultation with all the industry stakeholders including the “talye” sector.
The BoI has already missed its target to come up with a new MVDP. The target has been moved to end January, a month-long delay from the December 30, 2009 deadline.


Trade and Industry Undersecretary and Board of Investments managing head Elmer C. Hernandez said the BoI, which administers the program, is still finalizing the new industry blueprint.


The previous auto programs were a failure. The domestic auto industry failed to develop even under a protected environment where other competitors prosper. Now that the ASEAN free trade zone is in effect and the upcoming zero tariff regime with other regions are ready for implementation, the entire trading landscape has changed dramatically.


Thus, it is imperative that the new MVDP will work under a free trade area where the name of the game is survival of the fittest.



This is a make or break period for the industry.


Create a weak and lousy MVDP and we can kiss this manufacturing industry goodbye sooner.



[SIZE=2]
[/SIZE]

RP eyed as second ASEAN Hu
Part II
by Bernie Cahiles-Magkilat
January 3, 2010, 1:22pm
Manila Bulletin

http://www.mb.com.ph/

[uls]

if a Philippine Brand Vehicle (PBV) didnt materialize in a high tariff environment, how can it happen in a zero tariff environment?

the CEPT-AFTA was signed 1992 by Indonesia, Brunei, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand

everyone had years to develop their own local industries so by the time zero tariffs take effect, everyone would be ready to compete with each other

what was the Phils. doing all those years?

now that CEPT-AFTA takes full effect, the govt wants to encourage the development of PBVs?

good luck

the free trade agreement will make imported cars cheaper

what incentive is there for investors to put money in a PBV project?

who's gonna be crazy enough to put his capital in a PBV project when everyone else around him will be importing tax-reduced CBUs?

kung hindi na nga makalaban sa foreign brand vehicles na mataas ang tax

paano pa lalaban ang isang PBV sa foreign brand vehicles na tax-reduced?

[jpdm]

if a Philippine Brand Vehicle (PBV) didnt materialize in a high tariff environment, how can it happen in a zero tariff environment?

the CEPT-AFTA was signed 1992 by Indonesia, Brunei, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand

everyone had years to develop their own local industries so by the time zero tariffs take effect, everyone would be ready to compete with each other

what was the Phils. doing all those years?

now that CEPT-AFTA takes full effect, the govt wants to encourage the development of PBVs?

good luck

the free trade agreement will make imported cars cheaper

what incentive is there for investors to put money in a PBV project?

who's gonna be crazy enough to put his capital in a PBV project when everyone else around him will be importing tax-reduced CBUs?

kung hindi na nga makalaban sa foreign brand vehicles na mataas ang tax

paano pa lalaban ang isang PBV sa foreign brand vehicles na tax-reduced?

Have you read these?

....the initial Deloitte proposal calling for the imposition of a quota system wherein the volume of importation of CBU is tied up to the volume of locally assembled units, the grant of $1,000 subsidy for each locally assembled unit, among other issues.

Reduced tariff will be offset by a quota system (quantitative import restrictions plus incentives.

Pure importers of CBU from CAMPI do not like the MVDP especially the provisions above plus the PBV. But, the parts makers led by MVPMAP and this..

[SIZE=2]Philippine Automotive Competitiveness Council Inc. (PACCI), which is composed of the country’s major car assemblers that are also members of CAMPI. PACCI members are Toyota [COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]Motor[/COLOR][/COLOR] Philippines Corp., Ford Motor Group Philippines, Mitsubishi Motors Philippines Corp., Isuzu Philippines Corp., Honda Cars Philippines Inc.Together they [COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]account[/COLOR][/COLOR] for 90 percent of the country’s total auto production volume.[/SIZE]

are endorsing the MVDP provisions and the PBV (which Mitsubishi and Toyota are very vocal about it. I posted their press releases in the Philippine car forum)and are crazy enough to push for a Philippine Brand Vehicle.

So, its very clear that the CBU traders and pure CBU importers of CAMPI are afraid of losing their market because incentives will be given to companies who will put up manufacturing palnts here and build at least two variants of PBV per manufacturer.

Anyway, we will see at the end of January as to how the MVDP will really look like.

If the government wants to maintain the jobs, technology transfer and exports created by the PACCI, the government should rule in favor of these CBU traders and importers who are only after Pinoy's consumers' money and almost nil positive impact to the economy.

I say, let the government plan, MVPMAP and PACCI objectives prevail over these insignificant CBU importers.

[ghosthunter]

A "Filipino Car" designed by a committee of Filipino "experts".

I think we have seen this before, right?

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9356/phuv.jpg

And how long did that project take to get the prototype vehicle rolling on four wheels?

[A121]

Rather than design a vehicle from scratch better license the old Toyota Revo chassis and engine. It looks a lot better and has better engineering than this: http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9356/phuv.jpg