Left turn when general green but arrow is off

[citizengeorge]

Hi,

I'm a European living and working here for 1 year now. In my country, our driving schools are very intensive (it takes 2 months of bi-weekly schooling with a total of about 30-40 hours of theory. Just learning rules and correct behavior etc.

So, since the Philippines is partaking in the Vienna Convention of international driving rules, I thought perhaps most of the basic rules would be the same.

Like. Green light means general green, meaning green in all directions (left/right/straight) unless a red arrow indicates otherwise.

I quote from Wikipedia:

When the arrow is not lit, turns in any directions are permitted on the main green light unless its prohibited by roadsigns.

With dedicated left turn signals, a left-pointing arrow turns green when traffic may turn left without opposing traffic and pedestrian conflict, and turns red or disappears otherwise. Such a signal is referred to as a "protected" signal if it has its own red phase; a "permissive" signal does not have such a feature.

However, MAPSA and taxi drivers tell me that the rules are different. Green main light and a green arrow box which is off, means that left turn is not allowed. This is of course absurd, because in other intersections, there are explicit red arrows, meaning, since the red arrows should be unnecessary, the MAPSA guy is wrong.

However, when I called MMDA and LTO, it seems that they have absolutely no idea about the traffic code.

In my country, there is a particular law "Law on driving rules" which is a set of about 150 rules. Here, it seems the rules must be compiled from dozen of different memorandums etc.

HELP? I'm considering to do a violation just so that I can take the ticket to court and ask the judge.. I have to make a left turn every day and I'm just sitting there every day with a green light having to wait for 2 minutes with a completely clear intersection...

ENGLISH ONLY PLEASE, THANKS!

[desert fox]

Welcome to the site bro, dont worry, we have so many drivers here who have more experience on day to day driving in Manila...they will give you more advice on what to do best...

[ghosthunter]

*citizengeorge

Unfortunately the truth is worst than you think.

Example, the driving/road rules also depend on which area of Metro Manila you are driving through. So certain rules which are fine in one part of the city is a traffic violation in another.

So in your case, it might help if you can identify the area and even street intersection you are having problems with.

But if you are driving with a car with international license plates (blue), you can get away with certain violations.

[av8or5]

Usually if there are 5 light stop light, top most is red, 2nd level: 1 yellow left arrow and beside it is yellow light,

than 3rd level: 1 green yellow arrow and beside it is green light.

Usually, those levels are syncronized to light up together.

Now for instance that the left arrows (green and yellow) dont light up, it means you can turn left but yield to incoming traffic., when clear then proceed to turn left with caution..

This might help:

http://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/leftphas.htm

[_Qwerty_]

this is not the case here in makati, you can see this stoplight at the intersection of Arnaiz (Pasay Road) and Paseo De Roxas going to Greenbelt... it's a 4 light stoplight.. RED, YELLOW and 2 GREENS. One green going left and one green going straight.

If the Green going left is not lit, do not turn left as the vehicles on the other side is GO. There is also a MAPSA always waiting at Paseo de roxas..

[citizengeorge]

http://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/leftphas.htm

If the Green going left is not lit, do not turn left as the vehicles on the other side is GO. There is also a MAPSA always waiting at Paseo de roxas..

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The most rational, and international, rules, perhaps even default national rules in the Philippines, is stating the left turn arrow is permissive. It is completely absurd that MAPSA can make a rule that goes against that.

Any idea where I can find that exact phrasing? That left turn on left off is an illegal turn?

Thanks!

[_Qwerty_]

not only illegal but dangerous as well as when the left green light is off, the opposite traffic coming from Dusit is Go.. so you cant really turn left..

[citizengeorge]

In Europe, you go into the intersection, and wait for the possibility of turning left without disturbing the opposing traffic. If that never happens, you wait until the light becomes red, you make the turn, empty the intersection, and then the other sides have a green. It's both easy and efficient, that's why I don't understand that they would make rules otherwise. The only benefit seems to be that Makati can penalize drivers for following commonsense and international rules so that they can make more money. Isn't traffic rules supposed to help traffic rather than generate income? Or am I being an idealist now?

[av8or5]

In Europe, you go into the intersection, and wait for the possibility of turning left without disturbing the opposing traffic. If that never happens, you wait until the light becomes red, you make the turn, empty the intersection, and then the other sides have a green. It's both easy and efficient, that's why I don't understand that they would make rules otherwise. The only benefit seems to be that Makati can penalize drivers for following commonsense and international rules so that they can make more money. Isn't traffic rules supposed to help traffic rather than generate income? Or am I being an idealist now?

As they say, "only in the Philippines".

[citizengeorge]

I would argue that since the Philippines has entered the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals, the following text applies:

http://www.unece.org/trans/conventn/signalse.pdf

Chapter 3, Article 23, 1a: this suggest that green light permits driving in all directions not otherwise limited by signage

Chapter 3, Article 23, 10a: this suggests that green light is permissive


Any arguments for/against?

What will happen if I protest the ticket?