Boycott the Big Four (Petron, Shell, Chevron, Total)= Cheaper Local Oil Prices?

[jpdm]

A few days ago a local think tank released their findings and said that local oil prices are overpriced by as much as 12 pesos per liter.

One e-mail circulating around mentioned that in order to compel local oil companies (even if they will vehemently deny it, they are nothing but a bunch of rotten profiteering oligopoly) to lower the local oil prices, we need to boycott and stop buying from the multinationals (Petron-Asshole este Ashmore-British;Shell-Dutch-British; Chevron-US; Totalfinaelf-France) which control more than 90% of the local petroleum market.

The oil deregulation law became just a piece of toilet paper full of s#t because of these oligopolists.

But we should not stop buying gas...we should only buy gas from local companies (hwag Eastern Petroleum-it acts as the errand boy of the Big Three) that provide some relief to inflation battered Pinoy motorists...

Less demand would mean losses for them and theyl be forced to bring their prices also....

What do you think?

[_Cathy_]

jpdm, is it possible for you to post that email? I wanna read it lang. Thanks

[Jun aka Pekto]

A few days ago a local think tank released their findings and said that local oil prices are overpriced by as much as 12 pesos per liter.

One e-mail circulating around mentioned that in order to compel local oil companies (even if they will vehemently deny it, they are nothing but a bunch of rotten profiteering oligopoly) to lower the local oil prices, we need to boycott and stop buying from the multinationals (Petron-Asshole este Ashmore-British;Shell-Dutch-British; Chevron-US; Totalfinaelf-France) which control more than 90% of the local petroleum market.

The oil deregulation law became just a piece of toilet paper full of s#t because of these oligopolists.

But we should not stop buying gas...we should only buy gas from local companies (hwag Eastern Petroleum-it acts as the errand boy of the Big Three) that provide some relief to inflation battered Pinoy motorists...

Less demand would mean losses for them and theyl be forced to bring their prices also....

What do you think?

Boycott +90% of gas........ Sounds idealistic. But, what happens when the -10% is used up and their suppliers can't keep up with demand? Higher prices and back to square 1. All the Top 4 have to do is sit still and watch the masses come groveling back.

Isn't a class-action lawsuit or even government intervention possible?

I'm pretty sure the anarchists would love nothing more than to stir unrest... pretty ripe for one during times like these.

I'm surprised I haven't seen more red banners/hammer and sickles around.....

[1D4LV]

i think the report is from the IBON foundation.
can you also send me that email?
vladyderamos*gmail.com

[Monseratto]

i think the report is from the IBON foundation.
can you also send me that email?
vladyderamos*gmail.com

IBON Foundation is a known leftist think tank. Its fantastic solution to the oil price hike is the abolition of the oil deregulation law and the goverment control of oil prices. Best thing is not to give too much attention to them...

A country that advocates price control is Zimbabwe. Unfortunately it's inflation rate is 70 million percent because no one wants to do business with them. Exchange rate 20 billion Zimbabwe Dollar=US$ 1.00.

[CVT]

All of us have been swamped with the weekly increases in the prices of gasoline (and all other things.... )...

If it makes sense to me, I will support it.

6404:pump:

[CVT]

All of us have been swamped with the weekly increases in the prices of gasoline (and all other things.... )...

If it makes sense to me, I will support it.

6404:pump:

[tidus1203]

If they are profeetering and that can be proven then I support boycott of the BIG 3 but if people want price controls I am totally against any forms of price controls as mentioned above it will be like Zimbabwe.

[[archie]]

gandang idea but still think if those big four would not do business here, then the local distributors of oil will have the power to up or down prices.

same sh*t IMO.

my 2 cents

[niky]

Yeah, it was quite funny watching the news... The news teams are covering rallies against the "big oil companies" which are only 20-50 people strong... fifty people isn't a rally. It's a gang.

RE: EVAT: Oil: removing the EVAT on petroleum products takes away a lot from the government coffers. Yes, I don't like the 12% tax rate on EVAT, either, but that extra money we pay is helping settle the country's debt.

And part of that money is going back into GMA's subsidy program for the poor (although such direct doles are completely unsustainable).

RE: Profit: Empy's right.

It's not the amount of money they make. It's the return on investment.

These accusations of overpricing were being hurled at private schools years ago, when tuition fees were deregulated. That we were in it only to profit. Duh? If you don't make a profit, you can't improve services. Yes, private school prices are steep, but in order to buy equipment, hire good teachers and maintain facilities, you need money.

But then... they said... how come public schools like UP can give good service for cheap?

Hah!

The government subsidy on one UP student before Congress cut our legs was equal to the tuition fee of many private schools. That's the subsidy, mind you... beyond what the student was paying. Include the tuition fees of the student, and the total amount would pay for study in La Salle and Ateneo... which are really expensive schools, by the way, compared to most others.

Now that the subsidy is being scaled back, look at UP tuition now. It's getting damn expensive.

So... us private schools are profiteering? Ha. Yes, we make money. Millions a year, in the case of our school. But the total investment in the school is in the billions... and our return on investment is probably around 10% (during Erap's time, it was around 5%... that sucked... good thing we survived). If we'd invested those billions in time deposit, we would have earned 12-15% a year instead.

If oil companies only earn 10%... that's not profiteering... that's just average. But people are pouring a ton of money into oil investments now simply because the business seems like it will be the only stable one for the next few years, as the rising inflation (due to Chinese demand and Dollar weakness) will start hurting other businesses.

-----

Here's the bottom line, though.

Best case scenario: We all boycott the "big 4" stations (although since when Total became "big 4" is beyond me... they're still not much bigger than SeaOil).

We drain the reserves of the small stations to the point that they have to raise prices, too.

The local "big 4" outlets suffer. Local labor, gas boys, security, middle management, all Filipinos, suffer. Until, that is, that demand from the small stations becomes big enough that Petron and Shell don't need their own stations... they'll just close their retail outlets and sell to the small guys.

But the producers selling crude worldwide won't notice a thing.

So... what does it accomplish?

Boycott, rally... they're all knee-jerk reactions to something we can't control. Cheap oil is dead. While the dire predictions of oil running out within this decade no longer seem possible, what is certain is that oil prices will never go back down.

Instead of wasting time and energy trying to blackmail oil companies into making oil cheaper (and, in effect, making it run out quicker, too)... why don't we do something more useful? A selective boycott just changes the route your money goes... but in the end, it'll still go to the oil producers. Why not just look for alternatives to driving? Don't drive when you can commute. Don't commute when you can bike. Don't take a tricycle or Jeepney when you're just a 15 minute walk from your destination (I always do this when commuting).

For public utility drivers, it's even more important to learn conservation. Don't idle too long... waiting 15 minutes for just one more passenger is a waste of gas. Coordinate your TODAs and JODAs better. The more efficiently you can cover your route, the less fuel you waste on waiting (some bus companies already coordinate their fleets so that they don't have overcoverage of certain stops). Limit ODA memberships. How can any of you make a profit if there are more vehicles plying the route than passengers?

If you want to do something that makes a difference for the world, and for the country, be frugal. Spend your money where it counts.

[jpdm]

Yeah, it was quite funny watching the news... The news teams are covering rallies against the "big oil companies" which are only 20-50 people strong... fifty people isn't a rally. It's a gang.

hmmmm....

RE: EVAT: Oil: removing the EVAT on petroleum products takes away a lot from the government coffers. Yes, I don't like the 12% tax rate on EVAT, either, but that extra money we pay is helping settle the country's debt.

How sure are you?

And part of that money is going back into GMA's subsidy program for the poor (although such direct doles are completely unsustainable).

Band aid program.Why not spend the billion pesos on programs that will benefit all social classes. Why not use it to build new refineries and strengthen the PNOC Alternative Fuels Corp?

RE: Profit: Empy's right.

It's not the amount of money they make. It's the return on investment.

No contention.

These accusations of overpricing were being hurled at private schools years ago, when tuition fees were deregulated. That we were in it only to profit. Duh? If you don't make a profit, you can't improve services. Yes, private school prices are steep, but in order to buy equipment, hire good teachers and maintain facilities, you need money.

But then... they said... how come public schools like UP can give good service for cheap?

Hah!

The government subsidy on one UP student before Congress cut our legs was equal to the tuition fee of many private schools. That's the subsidy, mind you... beyond what the student was paying. Include the tuition fees of the student, and the total amount would pay for study in La Salle and Ateneo... which are really expensive schools, by the way, compared to most others.

Now that the subsidy is being scaled back, look at UP tuition now. It's getting damn expensive.

OT.

So... us private schools are profiteering? Ha. Yes, we make money. Millions a year, in the case of our school. But the total investment in the school is in the billions... and our return on investment is probably around 10% (during Erap's time, it was around 5%... that sucked... good thing we survived). If we'd invested those billions in time deposit, we would have earned 12-15% a year instead.

OT again.

If oil companies only earn 10%... that's not profiteering... that's just average. But people are pouring a ton of money into oil investments now simply because the business seems like it will be the only stable one for the next few years, as the rising inflation (due to Chinese demand and Dollar weakness) will start hurting other businesses.

No contention about the profit. But are you sure they just earning 10%. or they have just earned enough profit?

Whatever oil investments they do, its part of their business plan. But they should make it to the point (kahit papaano) not to abuse the public. Di ba ganyan ang arguments sa Meralco, lahat ng gastusin nila sa public naka-charged?
-----

Here's the bottom line, though.

Best case scenario: We all boycott the "big 4" stations (although since when Total became "big 4" is beyond me... they're still not much bigger than SeaOil).

Read, for you to know why the local subsidiary of Totalfinaelf (France) was included among the big four in the Philippines.

We drain the reserves of the small stations to the point that they have to raise prices, too.

How do you know?Have you made an inventory of their stocks?

The local "big 4" outlets suffer. Local labor, gas boys, security, middle management, all Filipinos, suffer. Until, that is, that demand from the small stations becomes big enough that Petron and Shell don't need their own stations... they'll just close their retail outlets and sell to the small guys.

All Filipinos will suffer dahil magsasara ang oil refilling stations ng BIg Four?
How come? The market forces will simply tell the small players and other investors to come in and fill up their market.

Pag nagsara ang mga gas stations ng Big four, im sure most willing yung mga new players to buy their gas stations.

So more jobs-- gas boys, middle management, owners, security, all Pinoys...

Example 1. When Chevron decided to give up their refinery here, the two other giants and other small players took its market. I think Petron and Liquigaz (Netherlands) bought the LPG business of Chevron in the Philippines.

Example 2. When 3 gas stations of Jetti closed, Total took over the stations.

Again, Gas stations lang ang not the entire business of the BIg FOUR because in LPG market (household, commercial, industrial) for example, medyo maraming kalaban sila dun. E di maraming pinagpipilian ang mga customers. Kung 700 pesos ang Gasul, e di sa Sula gas/Manila gas ako bili 660 lang.

But the producers selling crude worldwide won't notice a thing.
So... what does it accomplish?

Of course. local gas stations at local prices lang pinag-uusapan natin. TSAKA A CHANGE OF TASTE AND PREFERENCE LANG NAMAN E.Walang worldwide boycott dito. Perhaps, we can check their oligopolist tendencies tulad ng MERALCO.

Boycott, rally... they're all knee-jerk reactions to something we can't control. Cheap oil is dead. While the dire predictions of oil running out within this decade no longer seem possible, what is certain is that oil prices will never go back down.

Forgive me, but yourS is a kneejerk response and reaction.

OT to pero, parang you speak as if you are not enjoying the freedom we got from the Big rallies in EDSA 1 and EDSA 2.

Boycott works if done rationally, properly and decisively.

The email is not talking about making the oil cheap. Its just that we need to tell these oligopolists to think twice before making themselves fat at the expense of the "helpless" consumers. Another is to tell them to make justifiable increase in prices.

Yesterday, the press release was they rolled back the prices because of the request of President Gloria. Just got it last night, in newswatch, the oil companies are saying they reduce the prices of diesel because the market dictated it.

Ano ba kuya???

Instead of wasting time and energy trying to blackmail oil companies into making oil cheaper (and, in effect, making it run out quicker, too).

Consumers going to black mail the oil companies? OA yan term na yan. There is no blackmail in changing your taste and preferences. You are still going to buy oil from oil companies. Hindi nga lang sa BIg FOur. Ngayon simple lang, let the Big four lure the customers again away from the other competitors by lowering their price. Hindi yung in cadence silang lahat sa time ng pagtatas ng presyo at gaano kataas ang increase.

.. why don't we do something more useful? A selective boycott just changes the route your money goes... but in the end, it'll still go to the oil producers.

E ganun naman talaga ang gist ng email, magpa-gas ka rin sa mga oil companies pero hindi sa mga promotor ng oligopoly sa oil industry sa PInas e. You are just giving yourself an alternative and other oil companies more revenues. Spreading out the benefits.

Example. Kontrolado ng japanese ang vehicle and motorcycle market ng Pinas. Somebody came with the idea of bringing Korean, Indian and Chinese vehicles..Usap ang customers, non-Japanese brands kaya bilhin natin para may choice tayo at hindi tayo sakal sa presyo ng Japense brands.

Lalo sa motorsiklo.Ngayon, maraming options. May mura, may mahal. Depende na sa taste ng tao. E di you empowered the consumers. Chinese and even Pinoy brands are enjoying brisk sales..more jobs yun.

Now, bumagsak ba ang merkado ng sasakyan sa PInas? Hindi lalong dumami at gumanda ang choice, tumaas ang sales at yung nagkatrabaho (per se, hindi maganda kasi walang real manufacturig ang nagyari except for Toyota, Ford, Isuzu etc.with manufacturing plants here.) kasi kailangan ng maraming marketing, maintenance at sales people.

ganyan di sa oil market, paghatian ng new players ang 93% (half of 93%) market ng Big Four e di mas masaya, mag-eexpand ang ibang oil players, maraming choices sa consumers, dadami ang job opportunities and kakalat ang benefits at hindi nakasentro ang profits sa tatlo o apat na kompanya..

You are going to help pa local companies to grow and more efficient. Perhaps, another local oil refinery in the future.

Why not just look for alternatives to driving? Don't drive when you can commute. Don't commute when you can bike. Don't take a tricycle or Jeepney when you're just a 15 minute walk from your destination (I always do this when commuting).

I definitely agree with your suggestion.

For public utility drivers, it's even more important to learn conservation. Don't idle too long... waiting 15 minutes for just one more passenger is a waste of gas. Coordinate your TODAs and JODAs better. The more efficiently you can cover your route, the less fuel you waste on waiting (some bus companies already coordinate their fleets so that they don't have overcoverage of certain stops). Limit ODA memberships. How can any of you make a profit if there are more vehicles plying the route than passengers?

If you want to do something that makes a difference for the world, and for the country, be frugal. Spend your money where it counts.

Agree here.

[niky]

RE: EVAT: EVAT is one of the reasons that the Philippines has been removed from some of the "do not invest" lists out there... it provides an air of fiscal security to the country. Without better taxation (yes, it would be better if we covered all loopholes, but still, EVAT has its purpose), we can't encourage investors to come in here... they'll see our government as financially unstable and unable to protect their assets.

*jpdm: I was at EDSA DOS. UP boy kaya ako.

I've seen the issue from both sides. I provided the school example as an illustration of how business works.

Being an education major, I had a lot of classmates and even barkada who were leftists. Most were okay, but those who espoused views like those given by the "rallyists" were almost impossible to talk to.

Their concern is not the welfare of the people. It's to stick it to the capitalists.

Case in point: U-Mall. UP was hemorrhaging money. Congress was threatening to pull our funding out from underneath us.

Solution? The huge lot of land outside UP would be leased out on a Build-Operate-Transfer basis... with money going into the University each year. At the end of the lease, UP would have additional buildings for class use with no money put out.

That deal could have helped computerize UP... modernize the facilities, etcetera. The answer of the leftists? Di puwede... imperiyalismo... kapitalismo... etcetera...

Like... WTF? So... even if it would save the Filipino people the money spent subsidizing us "isko ng bayan"... we can't do it, because it's capitalism?

----

I was at EDSA DOS. I was there because I was pissed at the hypocritical mishandling of "justice" in the government.

And, after a few hours... I was royally depressed.

On one side, politicians who were not involved in the Senate inquiry were there... grandstanding.

On the other side, the leftists were chanting their war cries.

In the middle, us normal citizens... outraged at all of these clowns, were aghast at the people we had sided with.

Wanna know why EDSA TRES didn't work?

Wanna know why these "rallies" are nothing but a tiny number of leftists, with no support from the transport groups and regular people?

Because we're sick to death of all of this political posturing. People are starting to realize what it is. And even if we're sick to death of Gloria and how she walks all over the constitution, there's not much we can do about it, because to side with her detractors would open up worse options. People who would fill their coffers from our pockets without any pretense at encouraging development.

----

In the end, whether we like it or not, we're at the mercy of the capitalists who control oil prices.

The local gas stations are making a profit, yes. Because their profit is margin-based... and as the price of oil goes up, obviously, the raw profit goes up, but the percentages remain true. They're only following the rules of the game.

By bending a little and lowering prices, they're trying to work out how far they can go and still maintain that margin. Obviously, it's also a public relations thing... they want to appease the people a bit and keep the rallyists from throwing stuff at their offices.

That's capitalism for you... whatever people will put up with... you can charge. And like I've said... if the Philippines as a whole is not willing to pay, they can sell elsewhere.

If you really want to, fill up at SeaOil or Jetti... no one's stopping you! But as I said, such selective boycotting does very little. The only way to really stick it to the oil companies is to find a way to live without it.

In the end... let's all just walk.

[theveed]

Segway For Everyone!

[HyBrideVo]

[uls]

Magkano nga ba maibababa ang presyo ng fuel ng "big four" KUNG magsucceed ang boycott na yan?

P1? P2?

[A121]

All Filipinos will suffer dahil magsasara ang oil refilling stations ng BIg Four?
How come? The market forces will simply tell the small players and other investors to come in and fill up their market.

And it will be the same story all over again, as they need to recoup the costs of their investment and make profit. Di ba?

P.K. Ripper has a solution...

[empy]

i'm kinda wondering what "small players" will step in and take over for not one, but the TOP FOUR oil companies in the country. which enterpreneurs have the money to buy (even at a heavy discount) and operate the astronomically expensive refining and distribution networks that the energy industry demands.

even if you find someone with pockets that deep, he's not going to just GIVE you the money. guess what he's going to expect in exchange for his staggering investment?

wait for it......






that's right, friends - [size=6]A PROFIT!!![/size]

[empy]

................

[uls]

baket bigla naging oil industry experts ang mga activists?

have they ever ran a business?

kahit sari sari store lang?

[A121]

baket bigla naging oil industry experts ang mga activists?

have they ever ran a business?

kahit sari sari store lang?

nagresearch naman daw sila sa wikipedia.



*TS,

could you please cite other possibilities?