Questions Regarding Turbo Kits

[Kikkomann]

Good morning mga bossing.

Medyo interested po ako magpa-install ng turbo kit sa ginagamit kong sasakyan. Hindi po ako racer at hindi po ako adik sa sasakyan. Tamang gamit ko lang po sa araw-araw pamasok. Naisip ko lang palagyan kasi nababagalan ako kung minsan at nabibitin lalo na pag umo-overtake.

So ito po ang mga katanungan ko:
1. Meron po bang turbo kit para sa Mitsubishi Lancer 1996 na all-stock?
2. Kung magpapa-install ako ng turbo kit, anu-ano po ba exactly ang kailangan ko pang palitan na piyesa (air filter, racing cams, etc. if needed)?
3. Magkano po ba ang bnew and surplus nito (or kung dapat ba bnew kunin ko or ok na yung surplus)?
4. Saan po magandang bumili (cheap and reliable) at magpakabit nito?
5. Ilang percent/gaano ka-significant yung added performance?
6. Maintenance: mas mahirap/madami po ba?
7. Most importantly, yung fuel consumption.

TIA. :cupid2:

[Kikkomann]

Anyone?

[wildthing]

try reaching AUTOXER...mas madalas siya sa kotse.com yata...ferman....he is a turbo specialist...afaik kung mababa lang desired mo na pressure, nothing much to change from stock.

[nugundam93]

try niyo rin sa eRL.

[Mamar]

sagutin ko un alam ko

1. Meron po bang turbo kit para sa Mitsubishi Lancer 1996 na all-stock?
2. Kung magpapa-install ako ng turbo kit, anu-ano po ba exactly ang kailangan ko pang palitan na piyesa (air filter, racing cams, etc. if needed)?
3. Magkano po ba ang bnew and surplus nito (or kung dapat ba bnew kunin ko or ok na yung surplus)?
4. Saan po magandang bumili (cheap and reliable) at magpakabit nito?
5. Ilang percent/gaano ka-significant yung added performance?
6. Maintenance: mas mahirap/madami po ba?
7. Most importantly, yung fuel consumption.

1 Ang alam ko po meron
3 pag b-new at mga aftermarket parts aabut ka ng 150k or more!
5 AFAIK Up to 80% increase in power

[ssaloon]

got this from Botchi's post * mmph:

Since so many people ask about turbo set-ups for gas-powered engines, especially on the newer and later pizza-body Lancers, I thought of posting a quick guide for the things you need to spend / buy for a complete turbo set-up and get it running.

1.) Turbo - ideally a T28- T3 sized turbine from Garret or anything similarly sized; this gives good throttle response, minimal lag and enough top-end power for 1.6 liter Mitsu engines, even the MIVEC ones. Bigger 2.0 liter engines can get a size bigger. Can be 2nd-hand / surplus or BNEW, just make sure its still in good working order.

2.) Fuel management - you'll need at least an additional injector controller (AIC) and 1 or 2 injectors with a total flow-rate of 700-1000cc/min. HKS and GReddy make AIC's, you can find various injectors at your favorite surplus shop. Trust me, an Apex'i S-AFC won't hack it here because an S-AFC cannot determine / identify boost. Hence, though you might be able to tune for 100% WOT at any RPM in max boost, any TPS reading in between with varying amounts of boost will cause poor engine performance. An adjustable fuel-pressure regulator won't also be enough in this case since the fuel pressure adjusts linearly, even with boost-dependent fuel pressure regulators. You need to be able to tune based on RPM, boost, TPS and actual engine load. It has to ba an AIC at the very minimum so you can squeeze out the most out of the set-up yet not be wasteful of fuel so it has a constantly safe AFR. Kung sosyal ka like Fatbastard, get a complete piggy-back ECU so pati ignition map / timing pwede galawin.

3.) Intercooler - any will do but ideally find something that has a large surface area even if the core isn't as thick. Surface area is more important especially in low-boost applications on relatively high-comp engines (for turbo). Not to mention it adds more visual aggression on your car if there's a huge i/c core jutting out of your bumper.

4.) Manifold and i/c piping - this is critical if you want a really nice and fast spooling turbo set-up. I've seen so many poorly designed and poorly built manifolds from both custom-fabricators AND big-name brands.

5.) Downpipe - you don't need to get a full exhaust system (though it is much better if you do so), you'll need to mate the turbo with the current exhaust that you have.

6.) Uprated clutch for manual transmissions - the stock clutch won't hack it here as well, you'll just spin the clutch. Don't ask me how I know. Traumatic explaining to an irate customer that his car makes 2x more power than his clutch can handle.

7.) Additional fuel lines for the AIC, oil lines for the turbo and water cooling lines (this depends on the turbo you plan to use if its water cooled as well).

8.) Highest octane fuel you can get (Petron BLAZE) and sparkplug 1-2 heat ranges colder.

9.) Boost gauge, a must in any turbocharged car.

10.) Proper tuning - without this, you just literally set on fire your hard-earned money

Why did I post all these? The cheapest way to building a turbo set-up is if you buy most of the expensive parts yourself such as the turbo, i/c and fuel management. Ask nalang what your tuner / builder wants you to get because if hindi maganda kinalabasan ng set-up mo, the tuner / builder will always say that's because the parts you got are not what he wanted / needed in building the best turbo set-up

Yung gagawin nalang ng shop is the manifold and i/c pipings plus installing / connecting everything else together.

Its also important to upgrade the brakes and suspension if you're adding more power.

more discussion here: http://mymitsuph.com/modules.php?nam...t=8072&start=0

regarding your questions 6 & 7:
6. not as hard as people conceive it to be. just change your oil regularly kasi malakas magpalabnaw ng oil ang turbo. every 4-5k km
7. actually, this shouldn't be a priority for you since you're going turbo. fuel consumption will definitely suffer since you will have to increase the fuelling of your cars engine to attain more power. remember, power and fuel consumption are positively correlated.

teka, 1996 lancer is itlog or pizza na? kung itlog, engine swap ka nalang. halos pareho ang gastos mo, OEM turbo engine ka na.

[ronald_m]

Good morning mga bossing.

Medyo interested po ako magpa-install ng turbo kit sa ginagamit kong sasakyan. Hindi po ako racer at hindi po ako adik sa sasakyan. Tamang gamit ko lang po sa araw-araw pamasok. Naisip ko lang palagyan kasi nababagalan ako kung minsan at nabibitin lalo na pag umo-overtake.

So ito po ang mga katanungan ko:
1. Meron po bang turbo kit para sa Mitsubishi Lancer 1996 na all-stock?
2. Kung magpapa-install ako ng turbo kit, anu-ano po ba exactly ang kailangan ko pang palitan na piyesa (air filter, racing cams, etc. if needed)?
3. Magkano po ba ang bnew and surplus nito (or kung dapat ba bnew kunin ko or ok na yung surplus)?
4. Saan po magandang bumili (cheap and reliable) at magpakabit nito?
5. Ilang percent/gaano ka-significant yung added performance?
6. Maintenance: mas mahirap/madami po ba?
7. Most importantly, yung fuel consumption.

TIA. :cupid2:

Ilang mileage na ang auto mo?it also depends on your budget.

1.kung meron,Make sure alam mo ang capability ng stock engine mo bago mo itaas ang boost.
2.depende sa bugdet mo.You can go from mild to wild.
3.I'll get a bnew unit.
4.no idea.
5.depende sa budget mo.
6 SYNTHETIC OIL change.
7.forget about it.

[blink21me]

I'm not a turbo guy but I know for a fact you gotta make sure you're engine is healthy enough to handle boost... Do a compression check before going turbo, make sure #'s are close to their stock's and that they're not significantly far away from each other...

1. Meron po bang turbo kit para sa Mitsubishi Lancer 1996 na all-stock?

I'm not a turbo guy but IMHO masmadali mag-piece at mas worth it kung magk-customize ka...

2. Kung magpapa-install ako ng turbo kit, anu-ano po ba exactly ang kailangan ko pang palitan na piyesa (air filter, racing cams, etc. if needed)?

nothin else... but keep an eye on your maintenance sheet...

5. Ilang percent/gaano ka-significant yung added performance?

depends on the car...

6. Maintenance: mas mahirap/madami po ba?

On most situations yeah... You gotta keep an eye on everything, even head studs... double time sa maintenance... But if tuned right and naka-set in mind ang limitations, everything should be good, but not as good as if it was stock...

7. Most importantly, yung fuel consumption.

TIA. :cupid2:

I heard that people increase gas mileage when out of boost, but of course those are tuned right... FUEL tuning tuning tuning is probably the main Key???

[niky]

RE: fuel consumption... as long as you stay off boost, it's relatively the same... as long as it's well tuned. Depends also, how early your turbo spools up.

But on boost? I had a boardmate who stuck a turbo on his 1.6. His gas consumption was just so-so with light throttle... but he could go into the teens in MPG on boost. Another boardmate with a turbo on his 2.0 gets 6 km/l in traffic... a pretty big fall from the 8-9 km/l us Naturally Aspirated boys get...

[Kikkomann]

Shucks, 2 days weekend hiatus lang ako ay dami na sumagot (relatively). Nung pinost ko kasi ito nung friday ay nilangaw eh. Akala ko wala ng sasagot. Hehehe.

Una sa lahatay maraming-maraming salamat replies ninyo. Wala talaga akong alam sa internal mods ng sasakyan (hanggang PC lang ako... hehehe) so talagang medyo bulag ako sa topic na ito at yung mga sinagot ninyo ay talagang malaking tulong sa akin.

*wildthing can you please explain more about [turbo] "pressure"? (kung ano ang meron kung high or low pressure)
*Mamar medyo madugo pala kung aabot ng Php150K. May nakita kasi ako sa isang ad dito supplying bnew and surplus turbo kits Php60K++. Ang iniisip ko eh salpak-tune-takbo na agad ito. Hehehe.
*ssaloon chief, diba kayo po yung may blue na 1995 Galant Super Saloon na turbo-equipped na? If you don't mind me asking, how much inabot yung set-up ninyo? Btw, pizza-type na po yung sa akin.
*ronald_m 110KM++ na po ang mileage ng sasakyan. Budget? Mapaguusapan naman po yan basta reasonable at kung kailangan po talaga palitan ay OK lang. About sa capability ng engine, ano po ba ang dapat ko icheck at makita para masabi ko na "capable" na ang engine ko?
*blink21me medyo similar po kay ronald_m yung sinabi ninyo. When you say "healthy", ok na ba yung wala namang kalampag, alaga sa tune-ups and other periodic maintenance? Or meron pang napapaloob sa salitang "healthy" sa car domain na hindi ko alam? Hehehe. And about your statement sa maintenance: But if tuned right and naka-set in mind ang limitations, everything should be good, but not as good as if it was stock... - should I expect na medyo mas malala ang maintenance ng may turbo kesa sa stock; na mas prone ito sa problems?
*niky how do you exactly stay off-boost?

Follow-up question as I've noticed sa iba replies:
1. Mas OK ba talaga na bumuo ako from scratch or bumili na lang ako ng OEM turbo engine (e.g. yung sa Evolution)? - in terms of quality, reliability and price.
2. Gaano ba kabusisi/ka-tedious ang overall installation ng turbo kits. May autoshop kasi kami and I will be going to Japan next month. What I am thinking is bilihin ko na yung ibang parts doon tapos ipapakabit ko na lang dito. Ang mahirap na part na lang siguro ay yung tuning na sinasabi (or pwede na rin bang kami ang gumawa nito?).

Again, maraming salamat po senyong lahat na mga gurus. Hehehe.

[ILuvDetailing]

how do you exactly stay off-boost?

AFAIK if you keep your revs low lets say below 2.5K RPM - 3K RPM the turbo won't kick in.

1. Mas OK ba talaga na bumuo ako from scratch or bumili na lang ako ng OEM turbo engine (e.g. yung sa Evolution)? - in terms of quality, reliability and price.

I'd say an OEM turbo engine would be a better option, don't know about the price but it will be more reliable.

[ssaloon]

* kikkomann

yup ako yun. mga 110k++ inabot for the front cut, install and misc parts. pizza na pala yung sayo, mahal pa kasi choices ng engine pang pizza. 2G MIVEC nasa mga 60-70k ata, evo 4-6 mga 140-150k pa. wala pang install mga prices na yun.

[blink21me]

*blink21mem edyo similar po kay ronald_m yung sinabi ninyo. When you say "healthy", ok na ba yung wala namang kalampag, alaga sa tune-ups and other periodic maintenance? Or meron pang napapaloob sa salitang "healthy" sa car domain na hindi ko alam? Hehehe. And about your statement sa maintenance: But if tuned right and naka-set in mind ang limitations, everything should be good, but not as good as if it was stock... - should I expect na medyo mas malala ang maintenance ng may turbo kesa sa stock; na mas prone ito sa problems?

"Healthy", hindi mo yon basta-basta made-determine sa tunog lang... Kahit pa up to date yung maintenance mo, that's not an assurance na maganda yung condition ng engine mo... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the best way to know is to perform a compression and leakdown test... (search mo na lang kung ano yung purpose ng dalawa kung hndi mo pa alam...) When I said "if tuned right and kapag naka-set yung limitations", ibig ko sabihin na dapat yung magtu-tune ng kotse me eh alam yung ginagawa niya and may experience... Also, usually may manual boost controller ang mga turbo'ed which allows you to raise and lower the "boost" to a certain PSI... dapat alam mo kung ano yung limitations setup mo to safely run it, like, kung and engine mo eh hndi ni-re-built and hndi prepped para i-"FI", mababa lang dapat yung psi mo (I don't know what's safe for your stock car but it's usually 6-8 psi on Honda's)... Kapag napataas mo, masyadong risky para sa engine mo and pwede mangalas yan... . . . And yeah, mas-high maintenance and turbo... lalo na kapag hndi naka-tune ng maayos... Keep in mind na tuning plays a big part in maintenance, too...

Follow-up question as I've noticed sa iba replies:
1. Mas OK ba talaga na bumuo ako from scratch or bumili na lang ako ng OEM turbo engine (e.g. yung sa Evolution)? - in terms of quality, reliability and price.

Mas-ok definitely kung bubuo ka ng sarili mong kit IFF you know what you're doing and if you know where you're going ~sounds like you're not that type of enthusiast...

Kapag magbubuo ka ng sarili mong turbo kit, kelangan alam mo rin kung ano yung magandang quality na gawa ang mga materials... kapag relatively "so cheap" yung isang kit comopared to the other, look for differences, may mga kit diyan and turno manifold nagk-crack at naghihiwalay within a week or so...

Also, kapag bibili ka ng engine, kasama sa concern mo yung drive train, tranny, linkages, and such... You can't just buy an engine and expect na complete bolt-on yun sa kotse mo... Also, fitted ba yung engine ng Evo and other things sa kotse mo? Evo's an AWD...

2. Gaano ba kabusisi/ka-tedious ang overall installation ng turbo kits. May autoshop kasi kami and I will be going to Japan next month. What I am thinking is bilihin ko na yung ibang parts doon tapos ipapakabit ko na lang dito. Ang mahirap na part na lang siguro ay yung tuning na sinasabi (or pwede na rin bang kami ang gumawa nito?).

Again, maraming salamat po senyong lahat na mga gurus. Hehehe.

Bolt-on turbo kits are easy to do, kung kaya mo magpalit ng header kaya mo ilagay yung bolt-on kit by yourself, except that it takes much more time... Sa tuning, you gotta have the knowledge, other than the software and such tools...

[ssaloon]

bolt-on ang evo 4-6 sa pizza body ng lancer. you can just lock the tranny to FWD. mad wheelspin though :lol:

[rion]

Good morning mga bossing.

Medyo interested po ako magpa-install ng turbo kit sa ginagamit kong sasakyan. Hindi po ako racer at hindi po ako adik sa sasakyan. Tamang gamit ko lang po sa araw-araw pamasok. Naisip ko lang palagyan kasi nababagalan ako kung minsan at nabibitin lalo na pag umo-overtake.
TIA. :cupid2:

carb pa ba yung Mitsubishi Lancer 1996? o efi na?

turbo is too costly just for an overtaking power needs... kung carb pa siya, di ba puwede rin yun palakasan?.

[niky]

Carb tuning is a black art... I remember the last time we did a carb tune... terrible low rpm running, but a hell of a kick once you got the engine spinning. It felt something like +20 hp (which was a big deal on a mere 1.5 liter engine), but -30 ft-lbs of torque... oops.

[Kikkomann]

Again, maraming salamat mga bossing sa replies.

Actually, medyo hindi ko inaasahan na ganito palang ka-complicated yung pag-setup ng turbo, lalo na nung nabalitaan ko last night na yung isa kong kaibigan ay nakapag-setup worth Php60K lang (though I was contemplating kung OK na ba yun kasi parang tinipid naman ng husto, in comparison sa mga ipinayo ninyo).

ssaloon: hardcore adik na pala yung senyo chief. Hehehe. 2.0L + turbo-equipped = kumusta naman po yung fuel consumption niyo?
niky: medyo madugo din yung overhauling and kahit na sa amin yung shop ay parang mas viable na option na bumili na nga lang ng engine na may turbo, that is, if my current stock engine won't cut it. Pero napaisip pa rin ako doon sa dapat ay AWD yung sasakyan if I am to use and Evo engine (teka, ok lang/safe/"advisable" po ba na iconvert yung FWD to AWD?). And honga pala, anong pinagkaiba ng AWD sa 4WD?
blink21me: honestly, yes, medyo hindi ko po talaga alam yung ginagawa ko that's why I'm considering na bumili na lang ng buo na kesa sa bumuo from scratch. As you've described eh medyo hindi ko kaya i-take yung risk of setting it up from scratch.
rion: EFI na bossing. Pero medyo napaisip nga ako doon sa sinabi niyo eh (na medyo costly nga kung pang-overtaking ko lang... hehehe). Ang naiisip ko kasi is if I am gonna dust someone, gusto ko ng gawin ng solid na solid at walang bitin or sabit. Hehehe!

[ssaloon]

city driving ko nasa mga 6km/liter

[niky]

Madugo ang conversion to AWD sa Lancer. If you're concerned about safety and body integrity... wag na lang.

They're going to change your fuel tank, for one, then they cut out the rear multi-link subframe from the body mount. They weld in the rear differential in its place. It's very ugly to watch... an acquaintance did that to his daily driver... inggit ako, pero I never asked for a test drive... too scared of the rear end giving way...

Pero, as ssaloon has said, you can just put the engine in and convert the tranny to front-wheel drive. Okay lang siya as long as pa-easy-easy ka sa gas. But expect consumption to be bad. Maybe 5 km/l in traffic, at worst. Oops... sinagutan pala ni ssaloon...

For me? Your build should include the engine swap plus the suspension, brakes and heavier duty wheel hubs from the Evo. Evo wheels are optional. ...medyo mahal nga lang gawin lahat, so puwede by stages nalang.

The engine swap alone should cost you on the hefty side of 150k. :evil:

Cheaper swap would be MIVEC... mga 50-70k lang yata... that gives you an engine that's at least a match for the 160-170 hp Hondas out there... not sure about the price, cause it's been a long time since I looked.

[ssaloon]

if you're not into serious track duties or racing, the 2G mivec engine should fit your need for speed since you just want that extra oompf for overtaking purposes as mentioned in your 1st post.