shouldn't the philippines have its own car brand?

[kath1595]

with all the great minds out there im sure that we can have our own local brand that we can be proud of...and i dont mean the saraos or the owner type jeep. im talking about something that looks modern and decent

[architect]

*kath1595 -

You might find the Tsikot Auto Design and Research subforum of interest. There are several discussion threads on designing and producing original cars - from owner type jeep derivatives to sports cars to Asian Utility Vehicle types.

[niky]

There are some people here, like architect, dprox, and the fine designers at the tsikot design forum, who'd like to make that dream a reality.

And there are local groups who've endeavored to make it happen... Francisco... the boys at the MVPMAP... and others.

Unfortunately... the plain truth is... we're a small market... unless some businessmen put up the large amounts of capital to set up a car manufacturing concern... one big enough to serve the whole ASEAN market (and with trade liberalization, it's actually possible)... the economies of scale won't be there to produce a truly world-class vehicle.

But with the efforts of local industry and some ingenuity... it's possible to make an Asian-class vehicle NOW. It's just a matter of political will.

[architect]

*niky,

I agree at this time it is more feasible to achieve an Asian-class vehicle rather than a world-class vehicle and our developmental efforts are along this line. That said, we need to clarify the distinction between the two categories, keeping in mind there are no well-defined standards.

What makes a vehicle “only” Asian-class and not world-class? Conversely, what qualifies a vehicle to be world-class? Obviously, with some brands – there are no arguments re their classifications – Lexus, Porsche, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Infiniti, etc. Other brands have both high-end models and models that straddle the definitions. For instance, even if Toyota is a world-class brand, some can argue Toyota's IMV line of cars are not world-class simply because they are intended for third-world countries. Yet locally the Fortuner is considered a luxury model, and in the eyes of some owners, world class.

In addition, we have instances of having the same model configured differently for different markets. Drive a Ford Expedition in the US and drive its equivalent here in the Philippines. You will be able to tell them apart instantly. Or compare the Hyundai Tucson model in the US with the one being sold here – the latter clearly has less safety features. Does that make it Asian-class only while its American counterpart, world-class?

As much as there is no clear-cut delineation I think you will agree an Asian class vehicle categorization would generally imply lower price, less amenities, less safety features, and less advanced features. For “Asian-class” configuration of world-class models, obviously the lower price is achieved by the omission of certain features, significantly oftentimes, including safety features.

Rather than get caught in categorizations and feature focus, we have defined our design approach along functionality, careful not to sacrifice safety features as much as possible. To cite specific examples – a digital IP would be nice and trendy but it cost significantly much more then an analog set. True, the analog set may not be as accurate, but a good one will do the job. A curved windshield looks sportier but it also costs more. Unless we find a cost-effective OEM SKU that will be appropriate for our design, then we are willing to live with a flat one. Does that lessen the functionality? Obviously not. But it sure does lessen the cost. Similarly, having symmetrical air vents, side mirrors, lights all reduce the number of SKUs, and therefore production cost. Aesthetically, being symmetrical, they are still pleasing to the eye but obviously not as much as some of the more elaborate, feature-laden models. But, bottom line, they fulfill their respective functions. We have adopted this approach throughout the design process – in the choice of engine, chassis type, crumple zones, roll cage design, etc. In so doing, we have been able to minimize production cost.

Now as to whether the end-result will be considered world-class or not, the truth is it does not matter at this point. Why? Because our objective is to provide the Filipino people, especially the masses, with enabling mobility. If we succeed in this point, then we have succeeded.

And as for production cost and economy of scale, we have also redefined the manufacturing process that has allowed us to adopt a radical baseline. We have even gone so far as to redefine the distribution chain to minimize mark-ups. We have done these all in the context of what is admittedly a limited market. And in so doing, we have increased our chances of succeeding from a financial viewpoint as well.

As these involve confidential information, I’d be more than happy to discuss with you off-line.

PS. It is not so much as political will but the genuine interests of the stakeholders at the grass-roots level that is critical. There are already some existing supporting legislative infrastructure. This is, of course, notwithstanding, other detrimental government initiatives.

[uls]

sino po ang mamumuhunan?

yan po ang tanong.

[boydapa]

pagproduce nga lng ng simpleng bigas hindi magawa ng tama eh yan pa kayang oto

my golly

[coiter]

what for? just to prove that we can? to make a profit? to challenge the major car makers? have a source of national pride? offer a super low cost alternative? after it's developed, what's next?

i don't want to sound too pessimistic here nor am i against the efforts and dreams of many, but i don't see how it will survive after it's built unless we totally close the country's automotive market to foreign brands.

ika nga, pang bragging rights na lang. IMO. peace!

[uls]

sino mamumuhunan?

itaas ang kamay.

i don't see any hands.

-------------

meron nga tayo talent and skill dito...

dami nga tayo talent and skill dito e...

sa sobra dami ineexport natin...

[kevinpunzalan]

Lots of reasons!:

1) Creating a niche car brand for the ASEAN market creates long-term jobs, not only in manufacturing, but in R&D, business management, marketing, finance and trade. Imagine if we put the talent of the Pinoy to work in these fields instead of sending him/her abroad to do lesser jobs?

2) Creating a brand that caters to the needs of Asians means cars that are more suited to local conditions (i.e. more durable shocks, flexifuel cars, etc)

3) Creating our own car brand and later exporting to our neighbors will boost our GNP and improve our balance of trade vis-a-vis other countries = more money being made AND staying in the country... which means we have more money to spend in the local economy, or to use to buy critical goods from abroad.

The possibilities are endless.

[mazingerZ]

Why not do a tie-up with an established auto manufacturer, like the case of Proton in Malaysia. Kaso nga lang it would take a lot of political will and it would be gamble for our budding capitalists should we decide to venture into this foray. Ika nga, the chances are slim but we could also do it. Pucha mga engineer at mga designer nga natin nagtatrabaho sa labas ng pinas for large automobile manufacturers. Why not do it here?

[uls]

again, sino mamumuhunan?

wala po.

ideas are just ideas if u can't get it to materialize

[tidus1203]

Right on. Economic feasibility is the most important factor of any venture... No one believes its feasible as we speak, no matter how the die hard car fanatics would like to have our own local brand. Hey at least we still have our owner-type jeeps, truly Pinoy

[coiter]

Lots of reasons!:

1) Creating a niche car brand for the ASEAN market creates long-term jobs, not only in manufacturing, but in R&D, business management, marketing, finance and trade. Imagine if we put the talent of the Pinoy to work in these fields instead of sending him/her abroad to do lesser jobs?

2) Creating a brand that caters to the needs of Asians means cars that are more suited to local conditions (i.e. more durable shocks, flexifuel cars, etc)

3) Creating our own car brand and later exporting to our neighbors will boost our GNP and improve our balance of trade vis-a-vis other countries = more money being made AND staying in the country... which means we have more money to spend in the local economy, or to use to buy critical goods from abroad.

The possibilities are endless.

aren't the current car manufacturers located in the phils doing all these already?

1. they offer jobs with the current and latest manufacturing technology.

2. i think toyota's IMV project and vios and all other brands' auv's are catered spcifically for asia/asean markets.

3. ford exports cbu's to asean markets. toyota exports transmissions and other parts to the world.

i agree and i believe these are wonderful possibilities BUT for the LONG TERM and IF the "native" car succeeds in penetrating and getting a substantial share of the market. now how do we achieve this is the challenge. birth pains ika nga. and at what cost?

now wouldn't it be better and more logical to start small and make a more useful machine? like say make the 1st filipino engineered and manufactured farm machine (palay collector, grass cutter, etc). then move on to diesel engines to be used by jeepneys and tractors. then when we finally get the trust of the masses could we move on to the 1st "proudly philippine-made" people's car. from engine to tail light, lahat tatak pinoy. now that would be something

[mazingerZ]

again, sino mamumuhunan?

wala po.

ideas are just ideas if u can't get it to materialize

Ako na lang bro uls kung manalo ako ng superlotto hehehe

[uls]

Right on. Economic feasibility is the most important factor of any venture... No one believes its feasible as we speak, no matter how the die hard car fanatics would like to have our own local brand. Hey at least we still have our owner-type jeeps, truly Pinoy

and PUJs, tricycles, and pedicabs.

Ya no one believes it is feasable.

What are the taipans doing with their money?

they are building malls and condos and lifestyle communities.

Producing a pinoy car is not part of their plans.

No capitalist here in the Philippines will finance the mass production of a pinoy car.

There are many better places to put a billion pesos.

[uls]

Ako na lang bro uls kung manalo ako ng superlotto hehehe

haha... di mo gagawin yan.

pag hawak mo na ung premyo mo sa superlotto... magdadalawang isip ka

hehehe

[mazingerZ]

Actually kung ako ang nanalo ng P250MM na superlotto I would have bought 20 units taxi and placed the rest in the bank, then magpapa hinga na lang sa bahay. hehehe

Naging OT tuloy. . .

[architect]

*uls,

Sorry wasn't able to answer your question right away. Was away from my desk.

Actually there are about 30 of us in the group, not all members are tsikoteers. Some were specifically recruited for their expertise and experience in pertinent fields. That is why a lot of discussions are done off-line. But we have been meeting in sub-groups quite regularly.

We don't have a defined leader in the conventional way but have several designated leads in the various line functions.

Also, we are not looking for a capitalist per se to mass-produce the cars. Although at this time we do have the backing of several individuals and entities who can make things happen.

[architect]

Right on. Economic feasibility is the most important factor of any venture... No one believes its feasible as we speak, no matter how the die hard car fanatics would like to have our own local brand. Hey at least we still have our owner-type jeeps, truly Pinoy

If you are thinking of the manufacturing process in the conventional way, I would agree it will not be economically feasible. But if you re-read my reply to niky, I have stated there we have re-defined the manufacturing process to do away with established baselines. Unfortunately, I am not at liberty to disclose the details at this time.

Also, the objective is not so much as establishing our local brand but empowering the ordinary Pinoy with enabling mobility. The brand is just one of the incidental benefits.

That said, I have to say we are aware our business model is not guaranteed to succeed. But the group is willing to give it a try.

[architect]

aren't the current car manufacturers located in the phils doing all these already?

1. they offer jobs with the current and latest manufacturing technology.

As indicated, the foreign car manufacturers offer jobs. With our project, if and when we get that far, we plan to offer jobs and business opportunities.

2. i think toyota's IMV project and vios and all other brands' auv's are catered spcifically for asia/asean markets.

Toyota's IMV cars are simply too expensive for the common tao.

3. ford exports cbu's to asean markets. toyota exports transmissions and other parts to the world.

i agree and i believe these are wonderful possibilities BUT for the LONG TERM and IF the "native" car succeeds in penetrating and getting a substantial share of the market. now how do we achieve this is the challenge. birth pains ika nga. and at what cost?

now wouldn't it be better and more logical to start small and make a more useful machine? like say make the 1st filipino engineered and manufactured farm machine (palay collector, grass cutter, etc). then move on to diesel engines to be used by jeepneys and tractors. then when we finally get the trust of the masses could we move on to the 1st "proudly philippine-made" people's car. from engine to tail light, lahat tatak pinoy. now that would be something

That would be one approach. Actually there are several possible approaches. The approach we have taken is simply the one we felt most comfortable with, given the group's core expertise and resources.

Again, we are not aiming big. After all, when you think about it, there is nothing necessary to re-invent in designing or producing an automobile. Heck, with today's technology and global market, a weekend mechanic with enough skills, means and resources can assemble his/her own custom car. Not that the result is guaranteed to be roadworthy or even aesthetically appealing. But the point is the possibility exists even for the individual.

What we are integrating are design features and manufacturing methods that will hopefully enable us to seed a grass-roots local industry. One that does not seek to compete with the established foreign auto manufacturers but one that merely seeks to address the mobility needs of the ordinary Pinoy unserved by the current available products.

So, please do not try to analyze or view our little project in the framework of big manufacturing concerns because we are not one. Try not to judge our project's economic feasibility within the parameters of big production lines and the requisite market share because we won't have a big production line either and do not need a big market.

Bottom line our little project is just that - a little step. Of course, it does not hurt for us to plan ahead and lay down the foundation for future growth. But for now, please just regard our project as a little project instead of trying to view it out of context.