Mazda3 Air Bags Faulty?

[mazda3driver]

We recently got into an accident. We crashed head-on to a concrete barrier at 60 kph. Both dual air bags did not open resulting to head and facial injuries to me and the passenger. We had bruises at our shoulders due to the seat belts.

Ford and Mazda representatives met with us 11 days later. Investigation by Technical Consultant, Mr. Del Youde of Ford concluded that we weren't moving fast enough at impact. Incidentally, Ms. Gay See of Mazda Greenhills gave us the estimate of the damage and insurance will declare it a total wreck.

http://org72.zorpia.com/0/1734/11098416.fb9a95.jpg
http://org72.zorpia.com/0/1781/11404275.da02df.jpg
http://protegetech.org/forums/viewto...=141038#141038
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showt...hp?t=123635745

[niky]

I've read your story on protegetech.org. And there are some things not specified in the original story that I'd like to know about.

1. What is the extent of your facial injuries and that of your wife?

2. How close do you sit to the steering wheel?

3. What position was your wife in prior to impact? In the posting at protegetech, it was mentioned that she was carrying a dog and trying to protect it. Was she sitting fully upright?

4. How much compensation are you getting from the insurance company? I hope it's in-house, as they have quicker turn-around and won't pester you needlessly for documents. Hopefully, you'll get enough to pay off at least 75% of a new car.

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Reactions:

1. Airbags will not mitigate bruising to your shoulders by the seatbelts, as they are responsible only for terminal deceleration, not initial acceleration. In other words, your shoulders would still have been bruised by the seatbelts at the moment of collision. The Airbags are only there to stop you from cracking your skull on the dashboard if the impact velocity is too high.

2. Whether or not your airbags should have gone off is a very complicated question, involving the type of impact, the speed of deceleration and the angle of impact. From my experience, even with airbag equipped cars, only a few frontal collisions involve airbag deployment, and a collision with any side angle to it may not set them off at all.

Since your car hit a concrete barrier, it is possible that the initial impact did not register as a very hard one, as it was absorbed by your bumper and radiator. The photo indicates that it buried itself in your engine. The pictures indicate that the car absorbed the force of impact completely, and that no deformation of the cabin occurred.

3. Depending on your positions at the point of impact, airbag deployment would have been either a blessing or a curse. If you only sustained minor bruising in the face, airbag deployment may have caused greater damage, resulting in scarring and/or burning from the suddenness and violence of airbag deployment.

I've got a friend who's been hit by an airbag in the face, and if you're thinking it's any gentler than hitting the dashboard... well... it's not... not much.

And if your wife is a short person, there would have been the very real chance of suffocation.

If you or your wife sustained any broken bones from impact with the dashboard, however, that could be cause for complaint. Otherwise, the safety systems responded properly and did help you stay alive.

----

Hoping to hear from you, as the reposting on protegetech.org is sadly lacking in details.

And glad that you're safe. Keep us updated on how the insurance company works out.

[mazda3driver]

Thank you all for your replies. Here are our answers to every one of your questions:

- OLDBLUE, yung Blood sa dash ay galing sa chin ng wife ko.

- Our 3 month old puppy came out unharmed. My wife still had her on her arms and lap after the crash. If my wife wasn't wearing her seatbelt, she and our would have been thrown off and would have probably let go of our puppy.

- OTEP, We don't think we can remember if the seat belt were snug but we were wearing them. I remembered removing mine to get the towel we had in the back seat to put on my wife's bleeding chin. We removed her seatbelt when we were getting her shoes to bring her out of the car and to the emergency room since she wasn't wearing them.


Injuries to my wife were the following:

1. Four centimeter laceration to my wife's chin. After being stitched. She asked the doctor how many stitches and the doctor said he couldn't count them anymore. His words were "ay di ko na mabilang".

2. Four broken back teeth. She couldn't chew for two weeks. The dentist repaired her teeth 2 weeks after when her stitches and swollen chin were fully healed so she could open her mouth wide.

3. Bruised throat. It was painful when she tried to swallow.

4. Bruised shoulder. Most probably by the seatbelt.

5. Sprained Ankle. She was sitting cross-legged at impact. If she wasn't wearing her seatbelt. She would have certainly been thrown off at this position along with our puppy.

My injuries were the following:

1. Three centimeter laceration inside my lower lip. It required 4 stitches. Me and my wife were in liquid diet for 2 days and 3 nights.

2. Swollen jaw. I could only open my mouth wide enough to put in a straw.

3. Laceration in my upper lip that didn't require stitches.

4. Bloody nose.

5. Bruised forehead.


- OLDBLUE, Malayo nga yung dashboard pero yun na nga, tumama pa rin kami. That is why we needed that supplementary restraining system.

- HIFI, I disagree, the Mazda3 did not do well and the air bags would have saved us all those head and facial injuries.

- OLDBLUE, Baka nga pumalpak yung seatbelts kaya ok talaga sana kung bumukas yung parehong air bags.

- OTEP, you are right, after researching this for 23 straight days now, air bag deployment is complicated but we certainly needed it at that crash. Air bags are supplementary. Since the primary restraints (seatbelts) still made us hit the wheel/dashboard, we needed that supplementary protection.

None of you can convince me that we would still have those facial injuries even if the air bags deployed.

Yes we shouldn't have been holding our puppy up front. We have two options. Either buy that expensive cage that wouldn't really assure the puppy's safety or just double check if our seatbelts are snugged tight and drive a little more carefully.

Now that you've mentioned it, we could probably sue for those seatbelts.

- NUGUNDAM93, I came from the Mazda warehouse in Pioneer Street last week to get the rest of my stuff. I found 3 other MAZDA3's wrecked due to frontal crashes.

One of them had its air bags deployed. I guess he was moving fast enough. Here is a picture that I took with my phone:
http://org72.zorpia.com/0/1812/11599895.575c6e.jpg

Its not too far from the wreck of my car and from these two other MAZDA3's where the air bags also did not deploy:
http://org72.zorpia.com/0/1812/11599897.ea8b70.jpg
http://org72.zorpia.com/0/1812/11599898.e2cca1.jpg

I've checked my manual and it mentioned air bag deployment of 20kph but no mention about no deployment with impacts to trees or poles. If that's the case, then wouldn't that worry you? Especially in the roads of our country filled with poorly lighted and poorly reflectorized poles, concrete, barriers, dividers, fly-over columns, etc.

- ANONIMOUS, that's exactly how we feel. Though our vehicle accident injuries were the worse that we've ever gone through, we feel very lucky because we know of others way way worse.

I've had two friends die in car accidents. One just last year and one in the early 90's. Both were in their early 20's.

From interviews with other mechanics, I've now learned of the accordion design of modern cars that crumple to absorb the impact. But we still feel the air bags would have also saved us from those head and facial injuries. It does create doubt if they will work at all.

I guess if I died, Mazda would have taken this incident a little bit more seriously.

- NUGUNDAM93, tama ka, pare-pareho ang calibration nila. I've researched it. That is why I have doubts about the MAZDA3. I also found this incident in North America where 2004 MAZDA3 vehicles like mine were recalled due to defects with the air bag:

http://www.lemonauto.com/complaints/mazda/mazda_3.htm
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...callsearch.cfm

- BLUEBIMMER, salamat, mahalaga nga ok pa kami. Maganda lang info itong kwento ko para sa lahat. Kasi pati ako, akala ko basta

FRONTAL CRASH + WHOLE FRONT SECTION DESTROYED + TOTAL WRECK = AIR BAGS SHOULD DEPLOY

pero lumalabas na hindi pala ganon... or hindi pala ganon para sa lahat ng MAZDA3. Nakakatakot, MAZDA3 is currently the top compact sedan 2 years in a row. I have 3 other close friends and 2 close relatives who drive them.

- THEVEED, it turns out your right, seatbelts and airbags are meant to prevent death, not injuries entirely. I hope they have told me about that at the dealership before I spent more money buying a car with dual air bags.

- Lastly, NIKY. Here are the answers to your questions:

1. Injuries are mentioned above.

2. My height is 5' 6". I set the distance of my chair as far as I can to be comfortable just as long as I could reach to floor the brake and gas so I would say, my seat setting would probably be somewhere in the middle.

3. My wife usually sits cross-legged or in indian position. She had our puppy on her lapped but naturally not strapped to the seat belt.

4. We are fully insured but not in-house. Its been more than 3 weeks and insurance told us that we would still wait probably 2 more weeks. Its insured at P800,000. We just hope we get the full amount. Mazda did not offer to replace our car and also denied our request for a temporary car.

For sure, the one who will buy the salvaged car are planning to fix and re-sell it.

Whether airbag deployment would have been either a blessing or a curse, I still stand firm that we would have been better off if those airbags deployed.

It just doesn't make sense where you go thru a total-wreck frontal-crash accident resulting to head and facial injuries and they tell you that you weren't moving fast enough at impact for the air bags to have deployed.

Well, it turns out that's the case here so that is why we've been posting this story. My research the past 3 weeks have turned out to be very educational and I thought it would be nice to share it with everyone.

ZOOM ZOOM! :O)

[theveed]

and don't forget that the seatbelts and airbags are meant to prevent death, not injuries entirely.

[BlueBimmer]

sayang mazda3 bro..anyway mas mahalaga nothing happened to you and ur family..

[nugundam93]

sayang nga yung car. at least you guys are still okay.

in response to the airbag issue...made a separate thread. vehicle design will vary but imo pare-pareho lang calibration nila for airbag triggers. please refer to http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showt...949#post576949

[an0nim0us]

Glad there's no serious injury or worse. One thing for sure, the seatbelts prevented that to have come to you. As for the airbags not deploying even *60kph direct frontal crash, is kindof scary and creates doubt if it will ever work at all??? (sorry, just my opinion). But hey, the car did it's job of protecting you - and that's what's important.

[niky]

*ngundam: Ah... good info. At least it's official that airbags are not expected to deploy in a head on collision with a standing object. I wonder why Ford/Mazda didn't put that in their manuals.

Okay, I've just checked my Ford Manual. This should be the same, mind you, as for Mazda cars.

Frontal Air Bag Activation

A greater than moderate impact will cause the front air bags to inflate in the following cases:

1. Hitting a solid wall straight on at greater than about 22 km/h (14 mph)

2. Frontal impact within about a 30 degree range from head on to the vehicle.

3. Hitting a curb, pavement edge or hard object.

4. Driving into a big hole or hitting the far side of a hole.

5. Landing hard or the vehicle falling.

Limitations to Front Airbag Activation:

Depending on the Severity of the Impact, the front air bags may not inflate in the following cases:

1. Impacts involving trees or poles cause severe cosmetic damage but may not have enough impact to activate the air bag.

2. Rear ending or running under a truck's tailgate may not provide the stopping force necessary for air bag deployment.

3. Frontal offset impact to the vehicle may not provide the stopping force necessary for air bag deployment.


Non-Activation of Front Air bags

Front air bags will not normally inflate in the following cases:

1. Collision from the rear.

2. Vehicle roll-over, may deploy the side air bag(s) but not the front air bags.

3. Impact to the side, but it may deploy a side airbag.

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From the photos available online, the Mazda hit the concrete barrier edge on instead of broadside. A broadside hit would have deployed the airbags, while, in a head-on hit, not enough force is acting on the car at any time to cause airbag deployment.

When you hit a wall, the forces acting on the car are immense, and deceleration is sudden and full. When you hit a post, the car absorbs the post and is either deflected or wraps around it. It's the same amount of weight being decelerated, and the same amount of force, but in the second case, the force is spread out over a longer time period.

[nugundam93]

and...i've seen a mazda 3 with a totally wrecked front but still intact (yes!) cabin area when we were canvassing last year and checking out the tribute sa mazda quezon ave.

the mazda 3's front crumple zones sure are excellent then.

[OTEP]

Yes, airbag deployment is a very complicated matter. That is why they are know as SRS. The first 'S' being SUPPLEMENTAL. Meaning, they are not PRIMARY restraint sytems. Hitting the steering wheel isn't such a bad deal as all steering wheel hubs (or bosses as the European folks call them) are required to be 'head friendly' (as with most other materials used in the vehicle's cabin. Steering colums are also of the impact absorbing variety since around the 60's.

Manufacturers are generally free from liability resulting from non-deployment of Supplemental restraint systems as they are only designed to be a supplementary restraint device.

Also, you should not be holding a dog [much more a child] when riding the front seat of a vehicle. You shouldn't really be holding on to anything [e.g. groceries] that could get in between you and the dash/passenger side SRS. If the passenger side SRS had deployed, the cranium of your dog flying into the cranium of your wife would not really be a pretty picture. I transport the dog in a kennel (big dog) or I put a box on the floor behind my seat (they'd still fly in a rollover, however).

Now, if the seatbelts failed, that's the time you sue. As these are primary restraint systems.

[oldblue]

We recently got into an accident. We crashed head-on to a concrete barrier at 60 kph. Both dual air bags did not open resulting to head and facial injuries to me and the passenger. We had bruises at our shoulders due to the seat belts.

Ford and Mazda representatives met with us 11 days later. Investigation by Technical Consultant, Mr. Del Youde of Ford concluded that we weren't moving fast enough at impact. Incidentally, Ms. Gay See of Mazda Greenhills gave us the estimate of the damage and insurance will declare it a total wreck.

http://org72.zorpia.com/0/1734/11098416.fb9a95.jpg
http://org72.zorpia.com/0/1781/11404275.da02df.jpg
http://protegetech.org/forums/viewto...=141038#141038
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showt...hp?t=123635745

you had head and facial injuries? pumalpak din seatbelts nyo! from the pics, mukang tumama nga ang wife mo sa dash. hindi dapat ganyan.

when my mom and dad hit a 6 wheeler, the entire engine bay crumpled.
my dad was not wearing a seatbelt, and his head was the one who bashed the windshield into pieces. my mom wore her seatbelts, and she got no head/facial injuires, but she got 2-3 broken ribs. corolla 93 model yun sa'min.

[Elroi]

you had head and facial injuries? pumalpak din seatbelts nyo! from the pics, mukang tumama nga ang wife mo sa dash. hindi dapat ganyan.

based on the 2nd pic, masyado malayo yung dash para tumama sa mukha ng passenger if he/she's wearing the seatbelt properly..

[oldblue]

based on the 2nd pic, masyado malayo yung dash para tumama sa mukha ng passenger if he/she's wearing the seatbelt properly..

kanino ba blood yun nasa dash? may dog pala in between according to *niky. kawawa naman yun dog

[HIFI]

I would say that the Mazda 3 did pretty well.

[OTEP]

Was the passenger seated properly? Was the seatbelt snug?

The passengers walked away, the vehicle did its job. Dashboards are required to be padded as hitting the dashboard is a high possibility during crashes.

A few cuts and superficial injuries are acceptable.

Btw, my friend crashed her Ford Focus on the STAR Tollway, airbags did not deploy. She consulted me asking for advice whether they should take legal action. I advised her not to.

[niky]

Sorry, not according to me... that is merely what I've read in the mazda forums.

Kaya nga, asking for more explanation, eh.

[mazdamazda]

None of you can convince me that we would still have those facial injuries even if the air bags deployed.

bro... try googling about "airbag death"... and you'll know why airbag deployment is VERY selective... some info:

Airbags detonate with about 2000 pounds of force at more than 200 mph. This much force can amputate fingers, fracture bones in the arm and face, or even kill; especially if you are too close to the airbag when it detonates. Even "depowered" airbags deploy at 180 mph. The force of the bag is intended to hit an average man in the chest, but shorter people are hit in the face. This impact is especially dangerous for those shorter than 5'4", children, the elderly and those with Osteoporosis, heart surgery or other medical conditions.

At lower speeds and with smaller passengers and drivers, especially women and children, the excessive force of being hit by the airbag at speeds up to 200 mph, can have devastating results. Serious injuries, including whiplash, eye injuries, blindness, degloving , partial decapitation, quadriplegia and even death.

[mazda3driver]

bro... try googling about "airbag death"... and you'll know why airbag deployment is VERY selective... some info:

Yes i've also researched that. Airbags are designed to be fully deployed before your impact to the wheel/dashboard. I have four friends who got into an accident in south superhighway where all air bags of their Pajero deployed. All were able to walk away from it. Driver was wearing his seat belt. Front passenger and rear passengers were not wearing any. Front passenger was able to duck under the dashboard. The worse injury was the right rear passenger where he was brought to the emergency room for some bodily injuries but no broken bones were seen after x-rays.

I would have wanted those air bags.

[MAXBUWAYA]

is the airbag even there?

ang pagkakaalam airbag ang isa sa ninananakaw sa loob ng kotse bukod sa car stereo. Naibebenta iyan.

[niky]

Unless you disconnect the battery (which most thieves don't have the time or the patience to do... an open hood on a parked car is too conspicuous), airbags are very dangerous to tinker with.