E10 Ethanol, bad for your engine & economy? [MERGED]

[mazdamazda]

Is Alcogas / Ethanol + Gasoline mixture safe for our cars?

San Carlos City to produce ethanol in 2007
THE SOUTHERN BEAT By Rolly Espina
The Philippine Star 04/19/2005

The announcement did not come from President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo but the good news about the P1.5-billion ethanol plant that will be operational by the second half of 2007 came from Agriculture Secretary Arthur Yap.

But he made the announcement during the President’s recent weekend visit to Negros Occidental.

This was a much-awaited solution to the sugar industry’s product diversification move. It is expected that the project will lessen the country’s almost total dependence on imported fossil fuel.

The project will be undertaken by Dronzeoak Philippines, headed by Jose Ma. Zabaleta, the executive director of the Philippine Sugar Millers Association and a sugar planter from the San Carlos mill district.

The project will be supported by the National Development Corp. and a foreign investor.

Actually, the local firm is named the San Carlos Bioenergy, which is now in the process of being incorporated. In the San Carlos milling district, most sugarcane farmers had reportedly agreed to convert their sugarcane plantations to produce ethanol which will be processed through conversion of pure sugarcane juices into alcohol.

San Carlos Milling Co. was closed several years back. Thus, the 400,000 metric tons of cane from the district’s 6,000 hectares have to be transported nearly 100 kilometers away to Victorias Milling Co., the Lopez Sugar Corp. mill in Sagay City and the Bais Sugar Central in Bais City, Negros Oriental.

According to Yap, Petron has reported that it is ready to mix ethanol with its gasoline. The plan is to mix either five to 10 percent of ethanol (often called here alcogas) with gasoline.

As planned, the distillery will process up to 1,500 tons of sugarcane juice to produce 100,000 liters of ethanol and generate nine megawatts of power.

Zabaleta said that the P1.5-billion plant will provide an additional 200 industrial jobs to the local community. It will be located at the San Carlos Eco-Zone. This was approved by the Philippine Economic Zone Authority (PEZA) and will pave the way for the duty free processing of products for the domestic and export markets.

In addition, the plant will reportedly produce 50 tons of CO2 daily for the beverage industry, Zabaleta said.

The possibility of putting up other ethanol plants in Negros Occidental seem a bit problematic. The first hurdle is convincing sugar producers that ethanol is a more viable alternative to sugar production which is subject to the seasonal flux of millgate sugar prices.

The second problem is the standard mill-planter ratio of production which is placed at 70-30 instead of outright sale of farm produce as practiced in other countries.

In short, there are obstacles that must be hurdled. There is also the question as to which areas should be devoted primarily to ethanol and whether the present higher-yielding cane varieties are best-suited for ethanol production.

[Mojo]

its about time.

yung negros gumagawa na ng ethanol since 1960s pa, ull be surprised pag nag search ka sa internet about ethanol, lumilitaw ang negros sa mga old sales brochures sa mga foreign website

[ghosthunter]

from what I have read, ethanol/gasoline blend gives less milage than regular gasoline.

[RafRaf]

just sharing (from Manila Standard)...

400 pumps to sell ethanol
By Alena Mae S. Flores

Four new oil players have agreed to sell ethanol-blended gasoline in at least 400 service stations nationwide starting next month.

Energy Undersecretary Peter Anthony Abaya said Flying V, Seaoil, Unioil and USA 888 will put up additional pumps to jump-start the DoE’s National Fuel Ethanol Project aimed at reducing the country’s dependence on expensive imported oil.

“The oil companies, instead of blending a minimum 5 percent ethanol to gasoline, will be actually using a higher 10 percent blend. The companies will be initially importing 25 million liters of ethanol for this purpose but eventually, when the ethanol bill is passed and the infrastructures are in place, oil companies will be getting ethanol supply from local producers,” Abaya said.

Malacañang recently issued an executive order lowering the tariff on ethanol to 1 percent from 10 percent to encourage investors to establish ethanol production facilities.

Abaya is optimistic big oil players like Petron Corp., Pilipinas Shell Petroleum Corp. and Caltex Phils. Inc. will follow suit.

Ethanol is an alternative energy resource produced from crops such as corn, grain sorghum, wheat, sugar and other agricultural crops. It can be used as a transportation fuel as a blend to gasoline, a component of reformulated gasoline or a primary fuel with gasoline as blend.

Flying V is looking at investing in an ethanol plant in the next three to five years to support government’s thrust toward alternative fuels.

“Right now, we’re looking at ethanol, which is also under a government program but that’s on a medium term. We’re already conducting studies on ethanol,” Flying V president Ramon Villavicencio said.

He said Flying V has started talks with equipment suppliers, raw materials sources and financing firms.

Flying V joins other companies that have expressed interest to put up an ethanol plant, including the group of British firm Bronzeoak Phils. and Bukidnon Sugar Milling Corp. (Busco), which earlier expressed interest to put up their respective fuel ethanol plants in Bukidnon province in the next three years.

The two groups are conducting feasibility studies for establishing ethanol plants in Bukidnon.

A plant with a 25-megawatt capacity requires an investment of P1.5 billion, Rep. Juan Miguel Zubiri said in an earlier interview.

Under the government’s National Fuel Ethanol Program, private entities are encouraged to invest in the production of biofuels and distribution of biofuel blends.

The program aims to intensify the use of biofuels in the transport sector by blending a minimum of 5 percent bioethanol fuel into all gasoline-fed motor vehicles.

Zubiri said the government wants to raise the percentage of bioethanol blend to 10 percent by 2010 but “we have to first come up with the supply.”

The Philippines needs about 400 million liters of ethanol by 2010, requiring about 20 ethanol plants across the country by that time.

“We have to come up with ethanol mills, otherwise we defeat the purpose of energy independence, otherwise, we will have to import,” he said.

Zubiri said he would push for the approval of the Ethanol Bill because “nobody wants to start building the plants unless the law is in place.”

[jimaroquai]

Yup, have read that too. Problem is...for how much will it be offered to the public?

[theveed]

yup, while mura ang price/barrel ng ethanol, the cost of making it feasable for public consumption will cost a lot, so will public education of the product, sa consumer din babagsak ang cost.

Don't forget that andyan na lahat ng equipment/standards/process ng regular fuel processing, so costs for that are substantially lower than something newly developed.

[Karding]

yup, while mura ang price/barrel ng ethanol, the cost of making it feasable for public consumption will cost a lot, so will public education of the product, sa consumer din babagsak ang cost.

Don't forget that andyan na lahat ng equipment/standards/process ng regular fuel processing, so costs for that are substantially lower than something newly developed.

di ko alam kung totoo ba na mas mahal pa ang pag-gawa ng Ethanol or hindi, pero this is what I found.

Ethanol's Energy Balance:

The Claim: Recent news reports have falsely claimed the ethanol production process is inefficient, actually using more energy than ethanol provides as a fuel.

The Truth: Ethanol contains at least 77,000 BTUs of energy, while only 35,000 BTUs of energy are required to make it. Ethanol's energy balance is clearly positive

Ethanol is a homegrown fuel that results in job creation, increased farm income, improved air quality, and greater energy independence by reducing imports of foreign oil.

In 2004, U.S. ethanol facilities set new production records and consumers used more than 3 billion gallons of ethanol in their automobiles. 2005 looks to be another record-setting year.

http://www.ethanol.org/PressRelease71905bhtm.htm

Flexible Fuel Vehicle as mentioned by yebo:
http://www.ethanol.org/ACEFFVs.htm


AFAIK, Ethanol use can be dated as far back as Henry ford's time...1880s. Kaya nalimita ang pag gamit ng Ethanol ay dahil sa na din sa Tax. Oil shortaged in WWI and WWII rekindled the use of ethanol. (hint: WWIII)
http://www.siu.edu/~readi/grains/fac...production.pdf


This is the greates thread I have ever read. Well, aside from KHAOS

[naruto]

ok lang kaya yan sa kahit anong gasoline engined car?

[BlueBimmer]

sabi sa news magkakaroon daw ng ethanol available sa gas stations starting october..

if 2loy 2loy ang increase ng fuel..i foresee a drastic drop in resale value of big engined cars n suvs..hehe

[buknoy2002]

ang tanong ko e

ok lang ba sa lahat ng cars?
and magkano per liter
and me difference ba sa performance? baka mura pero me knock naman...

[falken]

ang tanong ko e

ok lang ba sa lahat ng cars?
and magkano per liter
and me difference ba sa performance? baka mura pero me knock naman...

Ok lang sa mga cars that don't have to run on leaded gasoline, as for the price, dapat mas mura, the Newsweek article mentioned that the price of 1 barrel is only $22.

[amit65]

Ethanol fuel is ethyl alcohol, the same type of alcohol found in alcoholic beverages, used as fuel. It is most often used as a motor fuel, mainly as a biofuel additive for gasoline. The first production car running entirely on ethanol was the Fiat 147, introduced in 1978 in Brazil by Fiat. Nowadays, cars are able to run using 100% ethanol fuel or a mix of ethanol and gasoline (aka flex-fuel). It is commonly made from biomass such as corn or sugarcane. World ethanol production for transport fuel tripled between 2000 and 2007 from 17×109 liters (4.5×109 U.S. gal; 3.7×109 imp gal) to more than 52×109 liters (1.4×1010 U.S. gal; 1.1×1010 imp gal). From 2007 to 2008, the share of ethanol in global gasoline type fuel use increased from 3.7% to 5.4%.[1] In 2011 worldwide ethanol fuel production reached 22.36×109 U.S. gallons (8.46×1010 liters; 1.862×1010 imperial gallons), with the United States as the top producer with 13.9×109 U.S. gallons (5.3×1010 liters; 1.16×1010 imperial gallons), accounting for 62.2% of global production, followed by Brazil with 5.6×109 U.S. gallons (2.1×1010 liters; 4.7×109 imperial gallons).[2] Ethanol fuel has a "gasoline gallon equivalency" (GGE) value of 1.5 US gallons (5.7 L; 1.2 imp gal), which means 1.5 US gallons of ethanol produces the energy of one US gallon (3.8 L; 0.83 imp gal) of gasoline.[3]

Ethanol fuel is widely used in Brazil and in the United States, and together both countries were responsible for 87.1% of the world's ethanol fuel production in 2011.[2] Most cars on the road today in the U.S. can run on blends of up to 10% ethanol,[4] and ethanol represented 10% of the U.S. gasoline fuel supply derived from domestic sources in 2011.[2] Since 1976 the Brazilian government has made it mandatory to blend ethanol with gasoline, and since 2007 the legal blend is around 25% ethanol and 75% gasoline (E25).[5] By December 2011 Brazil had a fleet of 14.8 million flex-fuel automobiles and light trucks[6][7] and 1.5 million flex-fuel motorcycles[8][9][10] that regularly use neat ethanol fuel (known as E100).

[spectr]

The national government should reverse the movement of E10 gasoline because it results in LOWER fuel mileage. But in doing so, it increased the demand for fuel overnight by 5 to 10 percent (the same percentage drop in fuel mileage). That means the government earns more money because the motoring public was dupped into the "clean fuel" idea and we all end up paying for it until today.

[pilaty]

ang tanong ko e

ok lang ba sa lahat ng cars?
and magkano per liter
and me difference ba sa performance? baka mura pero me knock naman...

and me difference ba sa performance? baka mura pero me knock naman..
Tutuapp 9Apps ShowBox

[dr. d]

and me difference ba sa performance? baka mura pero me knock naman..
Tutuapp 9Apps ShowBox

gasoline-ethanol can lower the km/li numbers... by about 3% on the average daw.
ethanol in gasoline actually has anti-knock properties.

actually, if memory serves, alcohol in fuel today, increases the pump price.

[travajante]

gasoline-ethanol can lower the km/li numbers... by about 3% on the average daw.
ethanol in gasoline actually has anti-knock properties.

actually, if memory serves, alcohol in fuel today, increases the pump price.

The True Big Pic...
US politics, lobbying, corn growers created e10, now Trump gifts em w/ e15.
Ethanol, which has less energy than the more efficient higher octane premium petrol, is unsuitable for old cars....that's why some enthusiast up there produced Blaze. [emoji13] Plus, ethanol is hygroscopic. Bad for our fuel pumps. I had 1st hand e10 trauma..Had to replace/modify a brittled fuel line, then a pump assembly a coupla years after that initial surgery on our 17yr old ex-daily....



The Effects of Ethanol Gasoline on Fuel Pumps

[mbt]

ethanol blended in gasoline in low concentration (about 10% alcohol) will run safely and reliably in current engines. may konting taas din sa octane rating... pure ethanol has an octane rating of 115 or something like that

[yebo]

no problem yan sa late model cars. ang di pwede dyan yung mga engines na leaded gasoline ang required fuel.

btw, most US gasoline is 90% gasoline and 10% ethanol (also called E10) used by all cars in the US. this is what is called "oxygenated gasoline". this is what you fill up with if you are in the US. ordinary gasoline vehicles can use E10 without any problems. some parts of the US even have 15%gasoline and 85% ethanol blends (called E85). E85 however is recommended only for FFVs (flexible fuel vehicles). there are more than 2 million FFVs in the US, althought the owner may not be aware of it ehehehe! an FFV can use either E85 or pure gasoline. ordinary gasoline vehicles can use the 90/10 gasoline/ethanol blend without any problems.

if their cars can work on ethanol, so can your cars.

[Karding]

To Add:

the gas brand 76 and some Shell stations in the US of A contains 10% ethanol. But yet, the price is the same. So who's to say that gas prices will come down after they add the ethanol? :swear:

[duskylim]

Dear Sirs:

Sad but true, the Philippines used to be a large producer of sugar and ethanol.

Unfortunately we have been surpassed in efficiency, price and quality by the Brazilians and their indigenous ethanol fuel program - both from the production side and the technical side.

Most of the ethanol used to create local E10 fuel is IMPORTED from abroad - from places like - you guessed it - BRAZIL.

For those truly interested in the background to this and its root causes - please investigate the role played by the premier Agro-Industrial Scientific Research Organization in Brazil - EMBRAPA!

Sincerely,

Dusky Lim