2012 Subaru Forester 2.0 XS vs. 2013 Kia Sportage 2.0 CRDi?

[gabster_26]

Hi guys and merry Christmas!

I've narrowed my choices down to two compact crossovers - the base Subaru Forester 2.0XS and the diesel Kia Sportage. I've fully researched both of them na but I'm still torn as they both have pros and cons. I don't mind getting the outgoing Forester as I think it looks better than the incoming one (and is cheaper too). Price is negligible as they basically cost the same.

Forester 2.0 XS

pros:
- all-wheel drive
- great handling and car-like ride supposedly
- large sunroof! I've always wanted a car with a nice big sunroof
- package they quoted me includes subwoofers, backup camera, GPS
- cruise control
- larger cargo space

cons:
- gas engine so FC won't be as good
- outgoing model so depreciation hit will be larger
- spare tire is not a fifth tire
- plain-looking compared to the Kia

Kia Sportage CRDi

pros
- more powerful engine
- better fuel economy
- spare tire is a fifth tire (same as the other four)
- 5-year warranty

cons:
- no GPS
- no sunroof
- small cargo area
- uncertainty with resale value?
- diesel engine may be more expensive to maintain, mas maselan sa fuel?

The most important factors for me are the engine power, fuel consumption, large cargo space, car-like ride/great handling, and creature comforts. I would like the sunroof, technology, and large cargo space of the Forester and am leaning toward it, but I read na for crossovers/SUVs mas maganda raw talaga pag diesel. Nababasa ko pati sa Forester 2.0XS na it's "thirsty and slow" compared to the 2.5XT and with other SUVs.

Would love to know what you guys think...I will be using the car primarily as a daily driver with occasional out of town trips. Thanks a lot!!

[Calistro]

I was in the same situation with you sir a few weeks ago. Its basically a choice of what you're willing to give up. GPS can be easily remedied with aftermarket a options, and reading through the sportage thread, you'll see how most Kia brAnches are helpful with installation. Some even give it free along the package (as far as I can remember, Kia las pinas?)

Regarding the 'underpowered' fxs, I'll recommend a test drive so you can decide foR yourself. If its a daily driver, I think the sportage is better, just have to get used to the visibility. Acceleration is what you'd need in city driving, and diesel is cheaper too. Diesel quality, i think as long as you load up with the recommended fuels you'll have no problems with it. Not sure what you'd be hauling with the need for better cargo space though, but that may pose to be a problem when you need space in the sportage. Resale value, wouldn't think of that unless you already have plans to keep the car for a given number of years.

The forester might cost the same with the sportage with its pms, although at longer intervals. What will offset this would be parts; seems easier to find Kia/Hyundai parts outside the casa compared to Subaru. Not to mention cheaper too.

Sportage and fxt are both turbocharged so compared to the fxs, they will really provide better performance. I opted for the fxs for its creature comforts, although it is not my dialy driver.

[ano727]

Test drive both, if both of those cars are logical choices for your requirements while considering costs of buying and keeping the car, sometimes it boils down to an emotional decision. In which car do you feel more comfortable to be in.

Aside from the car choices, back read forumer comments and feedback on dealing with Subaru and Kia dealers.

Some things to be extra watchful about:
1. Subaru spare parts - they can take a while unless management has made big improvement on this aspect.
2. Kia 5-year warranty - ask previous and current Kia car owners how genuine this is, and what is required to keep the 5-yr warranty of Kia cars.

Good luck in TS decision. Note that it is a very good time to buy a crossover/SUV now with all the aggressive year-end promos. I suggest you open yourself to more options (visit more, test drive more), unless you have already done so and these two are the bottomline choices.

And Merry Christmas to all!!!

[gabster_26]

I was in the same situation with you sir a few weeks ago. Its basically a choice of what you're willing to give up. GPS can be easily remedied with aftermarket a options, and reading through the sportage thread, you'll see how most Kia brAnches are helpful with installation. Some even give it free along the package (as far as I can remember, Kia las pinas?)

Regarding the 'underpowered' fxs, I'll recommend a test drive so you can decide foR yourself. If its a daily driver, I think the sportage is better, just have to get used to the visibility. Acceleration is what you'd need in city driving, and diesel is cheaper too. Diesel quality, i think as long as you load up with the recommended fuels you'll have no problems with it. Not sure what you'd be hauling with the need for better cargo space though, but that may pose to be a problem when you need space in the sportage. Resale value, wouldn't think of that unless you already have plans to keep the car for a given number of years.

The forester might cost the same with the sportage with its pms, although at longer intervals. What will offset this would be parts; seems easier to find Kia/Hyundai parts outside the casa compared to Subaru. Not to mention cheaper too.

Sportage and fxt are both turbocharged so compared to the fxs, they will really provide better performance. I opted for the fxs for its creature comforts, although it is not my dialy driver.

*Calistro Thanks for the feedback - what is the issue about the visibility with the Sportage? Congratulations by the way on your new Forester...how is it so far naman? So the acceleration is not that good compared with a diesel?

That's the thing din, I see quite a few Foresters on the road so hopefully the parts will be accessible outside the casa. The Forester is more common naman, I think, than Suzukis, Peugeots, and the like...

[gabster_26]

Test drive both, if both of those cars are logical choices for your requirements while considering costs of buying and keeping the car, sometimes it boils down to an emotional decision. In which car do you feel more comfortable to be in.

Aside from the car choices, back read forumer comments and feedback on dealing with Subaru and Kia dealers.

Some things to be extra watchful about:
1. Subaru spare parts - they can take a while unless management has made big improvement on this aspect.
2. Kia 5-year warranty - ask previous and current Kia car owners how genuine this is, and what is required to keep the 5-yr warranty of Kia cars.

Good luck in TS decision. Note that it is a very good time to buy a crossover/SUV now with all the aggressive year-end promos. I suggest you open yourself to more options (visit more, test drive more), unless you have already done so and these two are the bottomline choices.

And Merry Christmas to all!!!

Thanks for the reply! These are the final two cars I am considering, they are within budget kasi (1.2M, 1.3M max). Emotionally I am more for the Subaru...however the Sportage seems more "sulit", with the diesel engine. If the diesel engine was in the Forester then it would be Forester no question.

I test drove both of them and I couldn't tell the difference, alam naman natin with the test drives here, you can't really gun the car and see what it can do. I am just wondering whether a 2.0L engine is enough, to climb up steep hills (or in the city, the Shangrila mall parking ramp), carry a few balikbayan boxes, etc. And whether the fuel economy will be decent enough...

It really is a good time to buy a car, so many year-end promos!

[mda]

Don't want to throw in the Thai CRVs and the incoming RAV4 into the mix?

[April_Ryan]

I own a Forester and regularly post in the fuel consumption thread in the Subaru sub-forum. There a few other Forester owners there as well. You may want to check it out. Basically, if you are talking 100% city driving, in my case Makati-Taguigtraffic, it will be 7km/liter. A bit higher for those who are able to take EDSA or other highways in less traffic situations. If you do lots of NLEX or SLEX driving, much better.

[Calistro]

*Calistro Thanks for the feedback - what is the issue about the visibility with the Sportage? Congratulations by the way on your new Forester...how is it so far naman? So the acceleration is not that good compared with a diesel?

That's the thing din, I see quite a few Foresters on the road so hopefully the parts will be accessible outside the casa. The Forester is more common naman, I think, than Suzukis, Peugeots, and the like...

Welcome! I havent driven a sportage but its cousin, the tucson. i only had sat on the sportage and imagined myself backing it into our garage and didn't have much rear visibility. That pillar at the rear is a bit of a pain hahah. I have yet to get my forester sir hahah, waiting for the po from the bank. The fxs doesn't have stellar acceleration compared to the credit vgts. You can really feel their torque at low rpms. I'm basing my feedback mostly from my test drives. Just felt more comfortable with the fxs; I didn't even need the sunroof and its good for me. You might have different look on things as I grew up driving pickups and auvs with so-so interiors and ample power.

By the way, I don't think see parking ramps will be a problem for the fxs. Not sure which steep hills you're going to, unless you live in antipolo. I've been pestering people through pm regarding the fxs' ability to climb. I can say its ok, running at around 80 coming from mi greenhills into the ortigas flyover with 5 pax. Hataw un, so your issue might be from a standstill going up. You might rev it a little more if that's the case. On the other hand, effortless for the crdis heheh

[gabster_26]

Don't want to throw in the Thai CRVs and the incoming RAV4 into the mix?

Was considering the CR-V din but it seems so stripped compared with the features of the Sportage and Forester, plus it's more expensive. It would actually have been a good choice, since I have a slight discount if I get a Honda...

[gabster_26]

I own a Forester and regularly post in the fuel consumption thread in the Subaru sub-forum. There a few other Forester owners there as well. You may want to check it out. Basically, if you are talking 100% city driving, in my case Makati-Taguigtraffic, it will be 7km/liter. A bit higher for those who are able to take EDSA or other highways in less traffic situations. If you do lots of NLEX or SLEX driving, much better.

Thanks - will check it out! Are you talking about McKinley-level traffic? That's good since I might be moving to that area later this year...do you feel like your Forester's 7km/liter mileage is too low? I assume you have the 2.0XS model too...

[mda]

Was considering the CR-V din but it seems so stripped compared with the features of the Sportage and Forester, plus it's more expensive. It would actually have been a good choice, since I have a slight discount if I get a Honda...

Didn't realize you mentioned 1.3M max.

The 2 A/T CRV variants would fit your budget if you want to stretch the budget a little.

CR-V 2.0 V AT PHP 1,325,000.00
CR-V 2.0 S AT PHP 1,390,000.00

The 2.0 S isn't all that stripped I think, lalo if you get a discount for it. I'd think it also has more space compared to the F'ster and the Sportage.

The incoming RAV4 (sabi, January 2013) should be at around 1.4 daw (according to the article on kotse.com).

I still don't like how the CRV looks though.

Just trying to give you more options I guess.

[April_Ryan]

Thanks - will check it out! Are you talking about McKinley-level traffic? That's good since I might be moving to that area later this year...do you feel like your Forester's 7km/liter mileage is too low? I assume you have the 2.0XS model too...

Yes. Via McKinley or Buendia or Pasong Tamo extension. Horrible.

I think 7km/l is reasonable. I was at around 9km/l with my 1.8L MT RAv4 so I think it's not bad. I don't know about the mileage of the CRDis though.

[sachiel]

If the Forester still has their discount scheme, I would go for it. If you want to test drive, try driving in uneven roads or slight potholes. You will know how well the car drives this way.

[tr1ck5h07]

If you decide on the Forester, better reserve yours quickly. I hear the stock of the current model will be all out by the end of January.

Like you, my budget for a new SUV capped at around 1.3M. The upcoming Forester is targeted to be in the 1.5M price range.

Best thing to do is to test drive both and check their cargo capacity.

[gabster_26]

I am still so torn! Spent the past two days mulling this over. I actually have quotations in hand na for both. Kia already gave me a free upgrade to the head unit, so the only edge the Forester now has, on paper, is the large sunroof. And it's still ***ier than the Sportage for me, hehe.

The Sportage looks like it's going to win via a landslide...less expensive by 8K pesos, a more powerful and economical diesel engine, a spare tire that's a fifth wheel, and it has most of the comforts that the Forester has, except for the sunroof...which I like very much. The Subaru is like the ***y girl you can't stop looking at. Lol.

What still troubles me about the Forester is the potential costs of ownership...read the whole Forester and Subaru PMS threads, umaabot raw ng 90K ang ilaw, for example? And the PMS costs can reportedly get expensive at around 7-9k, with the 40k package going for around 30k pesos. I haven't been able to find comparable info on the Sportage - can anyone give feedback on their PMS costs so far? This will be my first car and I am not sure if the Forester's PMS cost is typical or mas mahal lang talaga siya imaintain.

Lastly, there's that nagging feeling pa rin when it comes to Korean cars...ok na ba talaga quality nila compared to the past? Am I overlooking anything? I want to find stronger reasons to consider the Forester, but the practical man in me is leaning - at this moment - toward the Sportage.

Kainis, nakaleave pa ung purchasing manager namin, di ko tuloy mapaandar ung proceso hehe

[tr1ck5h07]

Yes, the headlight assembly costs 90k, but how often are you going to replace your headlight? And in the case of an accident, your insurance will cover the cost and your participation will be just 3K (for the first 3 years of ownership).

PMS costs are roughly 5-10% more than other Japanese makes, so it's not that high really.

I don't know about the PMS intervals and rates for KIA so I'd defer that to our KIA brothers.

[April_Ryan]

What still troubles me about the Forester is the potential costs of ownership...read the whole Forester and Subaru PMS threads, umaabot raw ng 90K ang ilaw, for example? And the PMS costs can reportedly get expensive at around 7-9k, with the 40k package going for around 30k pesos. I haven't been able to find comparable info on the Sportage - can anyone give feedback on their PMS costs so far? This will be my first car and I am not sure if the Forester's PMS cost is typical or mas mahal lang talaga siya imaintain.

Since the current gen Sportage was introduced in 2011, and the CRDi even more recently (I think middle of 2012), you won't get any data on 40,000kms PMS yet. At most, maybe 5,000-10,000kms lang. See this thread --> http://tsikot.com/forums/kia-cars-ta...58/index4.html Maybe you can ask owners of older gen Sportage and other Kia diesels to chime in?

It will really be a leap of faith, either way, so good luck. I think you won't go wrong with either choice, as there are a lot of posters here who love the Sportage, particularly the CRDi variant.

In the interest of full disclosure, I was in the same boat a few months back, faced with the same choice as you, and ended up with a Forester. I figure I will get to 40,000 kms in 5 years, which gives me 5 years to save P30,000

[gabster_26]

I see - good point. Hopefully the 2.0 is not as underpowered as people make it out to be. I test drove it, ok naman ako sa performance nya. Di ko nga matell ung difference ng ride nila ng Sportage :p

At this point it looks like a toss up, I'll probably get whichever our car plan person is able to find the best deal for...go for the creature comforts, handling, and dream sunroof of the Forester (but face more expensive fueling and potentially PMS costs), or get the bang-for-the-buck Sportage (but face uncertainty about Korean quality and parts, as well as the potentially more delicate CRDi and its associated costs).

I should have a decision na by next week...

[gabster_26]

Since the current gen Sportage was introduced in 2011, and the CRDi even more recently (I think middle of 2012), you won't get any data on 40,000kms PMS yet. At most, maybe 5,000-10,000kms lang. See this thread --> http://tsikot.com/forums/kia-cars-ta...58/index4.html Maybe you can ask owners of older gen Sportage and other Kia diesels to chime in?

It will really be a leap of faith, either way, so good luck. I think you won't go wrong with either choice, as there are a lot of posters here who love the Sportage, particularly the CRDi variant.

In the interest of full disclosure, I was in the same boat a few months back, faced with the same choice as you, and ended up with a Forester. I figure I will get to 40,000 kms in 5 years, which gives me 5 years to save P30,000

Understood :D saw nga that you use it as your daily driver, which is what I plan to do with the vehicle I get. What was the ultimate deciding factor for you in picking the Forester?

I'm currently digging up as much info on the Forester's gas consumption - you mentioned it was around 7 km/l in heavy traffic - and hopefully it won't be as bad as my old gas revo was. Now that was a gas guzzler..

[vwaudimb]

Same boat 3 weeks ago, but in a different level of a vehicle. Choices were innova, montero sport, Subaru. Both diesel and gas. What I like about the subby is more on features and safety. For features like the sunroof, hid headlights, the avt navi with sub and rear camera. For safety the seven airbags and subaru's signature awd. But the other 2 fits my life style more because of more room in the innova or montero sport. Subaru wins this round. So far loving the xs.