BMW 745i Wild

**splerdu** · January 18th, 2003 04:46 PM

Apparently the use of Windows CE for the BMW 745i i-drive wasn't such a good idea...

http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,3959,833939,00.asp?kc=BAZD103019TX1K0100547

The iDrive is powered in part by the stripped down version of Microsoft's operating system for personal computers known as Windows CE. Theoretically, Beemer drivers can adjust anything, move forward and not take their eyes off the road. But that assumes that iDrive is working.

**OTEP** · January 18th, 2003 06:08 PM

Kaya sila inaasar ng Benz doon sa ads, eh.

Remember, yung linya ng MB: "I drive? NO, you drive."

**mbt** · January 19th, 2003 01:52 AM

all this electronic frippery is beyond me. i don't see how adjusting a radio or the air-conditioning could be any easier than by turning a large, simple knob the way Honda does it :roll:

**OTEP** · January 19th, 2003 02:20 AM

Ang ganda ng mga videos. Ngayon lang kasi ako nakita ng 7-series owners. Ang popogi! hehehehe.

Ganda pa ng license plates nila: "The Ultimate Driving MISTAKE!" :mrgreen:

**splerdu** · January 19th, 2003 04:50 AM

> all this electronic frippery is beyond me. i don't see how adjusting a radio or the air-
> conditioning could be any easier than by turning a large, simple knob the way Honda
> does it

i think BMW was trying to improve on that "one large simple knob" idea with the iDrive, but messed up horribly. the moral lesson? if it ain't broke don't fix it :mrgreen:

**OTEP** · January 19th, 2003 04:58 AM

Yup, ang aim nila is to reduce the number of buttons on the dash. Apparently, that was a bit stupid. Buti na lang walang i-drive ang mga eroplano. :mrgreen:

**e46boi** · January 21st, 2003 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by mbt

all this electronic frippery is beyond me. i don't see how adjusting a radio or the air-conditioning could be any easier than by turning a large, simple knob the way Honda does it :roll:

Don't knock it until you've tried it! The I-drive is fairly complex, and learning curve is steep, but once you've figured it out, it's an incredibly piece of equipment capable of robust operations. Sure it's got its little kinks, but doesnt every electronic gadget have one? That's why you have succeeding versions of palm pilots, cellular phones and GPS trackers. I think the idea for electronic convergence is a pretty good one, and IMO is very well executed on the E65/E66.

Give it a shot, I think you'll actually like it!

**OTEP** · January 21st, 2003 10:22 PM

once you've figured it out

At my technoligical level, baka oras na ng trade-in hindi ko pa rin natutunan iyang i-drive. hehehe. Mag-administrator nga dito sa forum hindi pa rin ako masanay-sanay, eh. :mrgreen:

**mbt** · January 21st, 2003 10:48 PM

e46boi,

maybe... and i do see what the designers were intending... but then, it's a little too complex for all drivers isn't it? it's scary to think that a driver not too well-versed in electronic gadgetry has to spend more time thinking about the system than about driving, especially on a highway... i mean, my dad can't even manage a simple radio with the flashy LED displays beyond the most basic functions.

just conjecture though... obviously, i haven't tried the system for myself

**Paul** · January 21st, 2003 11:31 PM

what's this? a bmw-bashing thread? well chances are nobody has tried the new 7-series for themselves and have only read comments from foreign magazines. so you don't have any right to give judgement to what bmw has created and tried to achieve.

it's a same to see otep rivera, who i know is a mercedes fan, took this opportunity to knock off bmw.

**splerdu** · January 22nd, 2003 01:03 AM

> what's this? a bmw-bashing thread?

no this is not a BMW-bashing thread. it's an iDrive mistakes expose.

> you don't have any right to give judgement to what bmw has created and tried to
> achieve.

i'm a BMW fan myself, but you'll have to realize the iDrive videos are really quite funny
in a sick sort of way. not everyone subscribes to machiavellian criticism, and your
reasoning is seriously flawed by implying that discussing product reviews borders on
the criminal.

**splerdu** · January 22nd, 2003 01:19 AM

OT: this isn't to meant to offend BMW or iDrive, but we all know interface design is a touchy subject. as a software developer, i run into that sort of problem all the time.

what is simple and easy to use for some isn't necessarily so for others. in the case of the iDrive, the biggest flaws i can see are:

1. menu depth: many common features are nested deep in the menu tree and requires going down several levels.

2. feedback: you have to take your eyes of the windshield to get feedback. very bad, especially combined with #1.

3. it's not intuitive: one big knob is nice, but people like to know what they are doing based on touch. in computers, well-designed icons let you tell what a program is for before you even read its name. in cars, the a/c switch feels different from the radio, and the wiper, etc. the iDrive provides no tactile feedback and requires you to look at the screen.

**OTEP** · January 22nd, 2003 03:16 AM

it's a same to see otep rivera, who i know is a mercedes fan, took this opportunity to knock off bmw.

Hindi naman ako Benz fan. Ang gusto ko lang na Benz ay iyong galing Korea kasi mura.

Sana may BMW din na made in Korea. hehehe.

And I'm not bashing BMW, nakakatawa lang talaga yung mga videos not only because of the vehicles but also the way the video itself was shot and executed. Parang B-movie.

Wala talagang hilig ang technology sa akin. Allergic ata ako. Kahit yung mga hi-tech na gamit sa ospital hindi ko alam gamitin. hahahaha. Nakakahiya. :mrgreen:

**e46boi** · January 22nd, 2003 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by splerdu

what is simple and easy to use for some isn't necessarily so for others. in the case of the iDrive, the biggest flaws i can see are:

1. menu depth: many common features are nested deep in the menu tree and requires going down several levels.

2. feedback: you have to take your eyes of the windshield to get feedback. very bad, especially combined with #1.

3. it's not intuitive: one big knob is nice, but people like to know what they are doing based on touch. in computers, well-designed icons let you tell what a program is for before you even read its name. in cars, the a/c switch feels different from the radio, and the wiper, etc. the iDrive provides no tactile feedback and requires you to look at the screen.

It's not as bad as you think, Splerdu. I've been to a few BMW sponsored demo's, and recently, a friend of mine purchased a 745i. It gave me a chance to play around with the iDrive.

I think that there is a lot of initial resistance to this technology due to its huge differences to existing in-car telematics. But I think the general public's reaction is just the same to iDrive as it was when car radio's were first installed in cars.

I personally think that the iDrive invents a whole new paradigm for how one interacts with the car controls.

And yes, iDrive does provide tactile feedback! They call it "haptic interface control", which is just a fancy way of saying "force-feedback". Depending on the function (and location within the menu), you can feel clicks or bumps from the controller (meant to indicate discrete steps). And at the limit of the selection range, the controller actually does stop turning to let you know that there are no other choices/options. With familiarity, you will only need to glance at the monitor just as quickly as you look at your radio to find out which station you are listening to.

I think it's all in the approach. Look at this forward-facing technology with an open mind, and it will reward greatly.

**OTEP** · January 22nd, 2003 02:03 PM

Waterproof ba ang i-drive? Joke. :mrgreen:

**mbt** · January 22nd, 2003 02:47 PM

uy hindi BMW or iDrive bashing ito ha

sa akin lang, maybe it's too advanced for its time... i don't see how things could be simpler and more effective than conventional knobs and buttons. i mean, a keyboard with a multitude of buttons is far easier to type with than, say, a cellphone with 12 buttons...

however, i do see what the designers of iDrive were trying to drive, so maybe iDrive, as one poster has said, only lacks polish at this time

e46boi,

"haptic interface control"?? hesukristow... :lol:

**pajerokid** · January 22nd, 2003 03:10 PM

not to support nor offend anyone, but i like the concept of i-drive. im a techie so im really into this stuff. Kung WinCE, eh di mas Magaling!!!!! :mrgreen: I use CE every day (PPC 2002) and applying this technology to a car is a concept which thrills me to no end :mrgreen:

**Paul** · January 23rd, 2003 01:04 AM

the ultimate question would be, have you personally used the idrive? and does the comments, or criticisms posted in this forum really based on personal experience or just relayed messages.

**theveed** · January 23rd, 2003 12:23 PM

almost all reviews by enthusiasts, drivers and testers i've read has praised the idrive's intuitiveness... most learn how to use the idrive without looking in a matter of 15 mins or so. It surely is simpler than finding a barrage of little buttons on a dashboard.

understand that this ain't no family hauling sedan, the 7 series and the S class has long been battling the technology war and the bimmer always come up with more standard technologies over the s over the past few models.

the idrive has a very distinct and tactile feedback on every twist. i've tried it myself.

the users manual of the 7 is quite intensive, and if men can only read it before experimenting, a lot of "techy stuff" can be understood quite easily. this is a funny artilce when i read the last review of the 7 in car and driver, 6 male drivers couldn't figure out how to start the 7 and use the idrive and they've all "tried" to do it right to no avail.. they probably spent at least 40 mins or so... while they're fiddling, the 2 lady test drivers have been browsing the manual, it took them 3 minutes to fully utilize all the features in idrive and start the car..

personally, i love the previous 7 and this is just a hideous rear looking car, but nonetheless, if i have the money, i'd pick it over an S in a heartbeat.

**Hamann** · January 27th, 2003 03:14 AM

I've tried using the iDrive and it really only takes a few minutes to familiarize yourself with the controls. Think of it as any new appliance or new technology that you come across. Take for example, a Palm Pilot. In a device such as this, yes you do have to know your way around it and how to operate it, and just like the iDrive you don't really have to know all its features such as graffiti, but learning how to will increase the efficiency of the product. Again like the Palm, it only requires you to set it up correctly the first time, after which very minimal work is required.

Just like when the PC was first introduced, yes it was difficult to learn but just because people still can't learn it doesn't mean there's something wrong. What matters is the end product, which was to ultimately make the driving experience more pleasurable by elminating the need to fiddle with so many unnecessary controls.

And yes, I've seen that Ad by MB. I drive? Yes BMW does make us drive more than you guys :D

No offense to my good friends at the MB Club

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BMW 745i Wild

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