emission-free converted hyundai getz

**mbeige** · November 21st, 2008 01:18 PM

So the engine is always running then?

**safeorigin** · November 21st, 2008 01:28 PM

maybe you could install an overridable system that automatically engages either engine at a certain speed. makes me worry on how it will work when switching powerplants frequently lol

**fourtheboys96** · November 21st, 2008 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by niky

As for the cleanliness of the energy... much of our power locally comes from hydroelectric and geothermal plants... so the overall carbon footprint is still reduced... at least for this country.

well in the philippines, much of the energy still comes from fossil fuels

http://www.doe.gov.ph/EP/Powerstat.htm

**niky** · November 21st, 2008 02:57 PM

That's still 1/3rd of your electricity from renewable resources, as opposed to 100% of your gasoline from non-renewable resources.

Of course, that's not taking into account the massive generation and distribution losses, but given that an electric vehicle will not use power while stationary and does not suffer poor economy when "cold" (well, as cold as it gets here, in countries with a true winter, it becomes an issue)... errh... given that they don't suffer these effects, I think it should balance out.

The important factor is whether they give you lower cost per kilometer than cars. That's the bottom line, actually, that decides commercial viability.

**fourtheboys96** · November 21st, 2008 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by niky

The important factor is whether they give you lower cost per kilometer than cars. That's the bottom line, actually, that decides commercial viability.

The cost per kilometer is definitely important. However, if we would only consider private costs (internal costs) and exclude social costs (externalities), the endeavor will probably bring in benefits only to some sectors of the society. And from a social benefits costs analysis, there is a probability that it fails to meet the criteria.

**niky** · November 21st, 2008 05:34 PM

That'll depend on what the final calculations come out to.

In this case, lower total overall costs, from manufacture to running costs, indicate a lower utilization of resources... in other words, social responsibility is measured by economic savings.

If you're plugged into the power grid, only 2/3rds of your power will come from polluting sources. Furthermore, there's the question of how many kilometers you can go for the amount of emissions. For short trips, the gasoline equivalency of electric power is actually very good, due to the inefficiency of gasoline and diesel engines when running cold.

In this case, it's a win-win situation, as long as battery longevity is assured (as for battery-production related pollution... batteries can be recycled) and the numbers all work out in the end.

Anything that saves the consumer money (without causing more pollution than otherwise) is socially responsible. That frees up money to be used for other things... foood, clothes, etcetera... that's why the current trending for crop-grown bio-fuels is dubious... you're not saving anyone anything... you're giving people a fuel alternative that they either have to pay more money for (in the US) or subsidize with their taxes (a subsidy that can go elsewhere) and that takes food away from their plates (drives up the cost of food, too).

The problem, really, is that to make electric cars practical (in other words, to give them comparable range and performance to gasoline/diesel), you need to rethink the entire automotive paradigm. You can't make electric vehicles as large or robust as gasoline/diesel vehicles. Lightness adds to econoomy and savings. Speed limits for EVs need to be different, too. EVs will not be "cars" in the sense that we know them... they'll be more like four-wheeled motorcycles or light-vehicles. To attempt to make them similar to cars in performance and size is folly (look at the hyper-expensive Tesla, or the new Mini-E, which has become a two-seater due to the amount of batteries it needs to carry). That's where the difficulty lies. Unless you restructure the transport grid for EVs, they'll never achieve mass acceptance.

But the social cost here? Acceptable... lower overall speeds... lower accident rates (lighter vehicles at lower speeds equals less potential energy involved in crashes... and more lightweight material makes them more pedestrian friendly)... greater mobility for the masses. The one thing that, as yet, remains unanswered is the battery question. They're still expensive, they're still toxic, and they're still not long-lasting enough.