Comparing Performance in Sierra Madre's twisties (Tanay)

[RadioKnight]

I've observed that EXTRA HP makes little difference when running in Sierra Madre. The road is so 'twisty' it's hard to maximize power.

I wonder though what the difference would be in these roads when comparing cars like 86/brz (good handling RWD) vs supped up fwd (ex. Civic)

Anyone with first hand experience? In the real world, can one pull away from the other ?

[jut703]

Hard to run as fast as you can when theres the risk of jeeps or motorcycles suddenly popping out.

[niky]

On an unfamiliar road, with unfamiliar traction, it's hard to pull out an advantage in a rear-wheel drive sports car over a front-wheel drive one. Especially when it gets wet. And especially if there's traffic.

Assuming you've got the road closed and to yourself, a stock FD 2.0 MT, which has similar 0-100 km/h abilities, with some suspension mods, the Toyobaru twins can probably win against, as long as you're willing to commit. That assumes similar tires. The 86's stock tires are too slippery. Scrub into understeer too easily.

A current MINI Cooper S? I don't think so. Evenly matched drivers, it might be close, but you can push further and harder in the MINI without fear of losing the rear end. On a racetrack like Clark, with big constant and shrinking-radius turns, the MINI might be at a disadvantage, but the RWD advantage of mid-corner and corner-exit traction disappears on such a tight road, where you can toss the smaller, shorter-wheelbase MINI into the corners with abandon and utilize the LSD and early power application to tame the oversteer on the exit. And this is before you consider the MINI's superior torque and power.

Of course, that's assuming you've got the road to yourself. On such roads, on early weekend mornings, you're just as likely to get a face full of motorbiker understeering into your lane from around a blind bend as you are to get a clear road. Better to keep it on track or wait for the hillclimbs to start for the year and join those, just to see how big your balls really are compared to the craziest drivers out there...

[Verbl Kint]

The Sierra Madre loop is too dangerous to play around in, particularly Infanta Highway. Too many blind corners (some with more than 1 apex) with dips and steep ascents thrown in.

You're liable to hit a peloton of road/mountain bikers or a gaggle of underbones. Then there's the occasional "big bike" going on full throttle.

This is outside of the usual jeeps, trikes and dump trucks.

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[ghosthunter]

I've observed that EXTRA HP makes little difference when running in Sierra Madre. The road is so 'twisty' it's hard to maximize power.

I wonder though what the difference would be in these roads when comparing cars like 86/brz (good handling RWD) vs supped up fwd (ex. Civic)

Anyone with first hand experience? In the real world, can one pull away from the other ?

Knowing your vehicle's limits and knowing the road would give you an edge over others. But it can be dangerous if you haven't driven through the area before. Familiarity with the road's curves and dips would help you navigate through them safer even at higher speeds. You will also get to know how your car behaves at the limit, and know at which speed where your car/tires will start to loose traction.



Do it right and the result can look effortless...

[jut703]

Knowing your vehicle's limits and knowing the road would give you an edge over others. But it can be dangerous if you haven't driven through the area before. Familiarity with the road's curves and dips would help you navigate through them safer even at higher speeds. You will also get to know how your car behaves at the limit, and know at which speed where your car/tires will start to loose traction.



Do it right and the result can look effortless...

At this pace you're not really pushing the car to the limit yet, so the car's performance doesn't really matter much yet, since you can run at a similar speed with a lesser car.

Here's a guy I know that has a thing for timing his runs on Tanay. Still far from the limit though with all the traffic passing by:

[ghosthunter]

At this pace you're not really pushing the car to the limit yet, so the car's performance doesn't really matter much yet, since you can run at a similar speed with a lesser car.

Here's a guy I know that has a thing for timing his runs on Tanay. Still far from the limit though with all the traffic passing by:

Well, I wasn't trying to kill myself nor the driver in the car behind me. I was just enjoying a drive through Tanay by keeping a "safe" speed (notice I didn't even need to use the brakes much). Note that the speeds in the video would mostly be around 80-90kph through the corners, not enough to reach the limits of the car but enough to feel the cornering forces.

I have done faster runs on the same stretch of road and you can really feel the handling limits of different cars/mods on this kind of road.

[niky]

It's a nice road, but it's rare to get it all to yourself. You really can't push the limits, at all.

[shibby75]

Not everyone (nor eveycar) can take on a corner at highspeed, you need courage to do it at sierra madre. Try going up on a weekend morning and see how many bikes and some cars overshoot those corners.


Mga 2005 di pa gano madami motor jan, halos solo namin ang kalsada. Eh sumikat ang lugar, being the nearest road in manila to have such corners, naging haven ng mga wanabee racers. Pro Racers i can live with , yung mga bobong wanabee ang nakakatakot. Motto nila sa buhay "patay kung patay".


You can test your cars limit at sctex, yun ay kung swertihin ka na di mahuli.

[foresterx]

i'm guessing you watched the latest initial d episode.:bwahaha:

[ghosthunter]

Not everyone (nor eveycar) can take on a corner at highspeed, you need courage to do it at sierra madre. Try going up on a weekend morning and see how many bikes and some cars overshoot those corners.


Mga 2005 di pa gano madami motor jan, halos solo namin ang kalsada. Eh sumikat ang lugar, being the nearest road in manila to have such corners, naging haven ng mga wanabee racers. Pro Racers i can live with , yung mga bobong wanabee ang nakakatakot. Motto nila sa buhay "patay kung patay".

You can test your cars limit at sctex, yun ay kung swertihin ka na di mahuli.

Going very fast on a long straight road gets boring after a few times and requires very little skill.

Keeping one's car on a twisting mountain road is more fun and a good challenge to upgrade one's skills to master the car you are driving.

It is also rewarding to the driver if you are driving a good handling car. Even a cheap car can be fun to drive on the roads of Tanay. Even I had buckets of fun driving a stock Mitsubishi Mirage GLS.

[uls]

ya it really gets boring driving in a straight line

and after listening to VTEC-kicked-in-yo since the late 90s it's really boring na talaga

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXDNxkUiUws]Human VTEC Sound - YouTube[/ame]

[jut703]

It is also rewarding to the driver if you are driving a good handling car. Even a cheap car can be fun to drive on the roads of Tanay. Even I had buckets of fun driving a stock Mitsubishi Mirage GLS.

Even a bad handling car is fun in the twisties. I've brought our old L200 with dead brakes,slippery tires, and a really weak engine through Tanay. It's a different challenge - maintaining momentum, preventing the brakes from locking up, and getting the steering to work.

To me, Tanay is a place to have fun - regardless of the car.

[RadioKnight]

Even a bad handling car is fun in the twisties. I've brought our old L200 with dead brakes,slippery tires, and a really weak engine through Tanay. It's a different challenge - maintaining momentum, preventing the brakes from locking up, and getting the steering to work.

To me, Tanay is a place to have fun - regardless of the car.

Very good points! Sometimes, it actually feels like you are going faster in a cheaper or worse handling car (even though you are not). This can add to the fun nonetheless. Their limits are much easier to approach. At the same time, iba din when you bring a great handling car -- you get chance to feel the difference and appreciate the engineering.

Indeed this stretch of twisties is great to drive.

Pero ibang level ata when you bring an old L200 with poor brakes, worn tires and problematic steering! :D

[vinj]

I used to go for fun runs there back in the late 90s to early 00s with the Nissan group. It's not HP but torque and a well-balanced chassis that makes these roads fun. I used to run these roads on a 2.7L diesel engine with less than 90hp and it would still hold my own against gasoline powered sedans (using wide, lower profile tires and stiffer gas shocks). I agree with GH on knowing your limits and keeping it simple. You'll be surprised that the best track times usually look boring on tape AFAIK, as compared to those balls-out, body rolling, rear sliding vids.

i'm guessing you watched the latest initial d episode.:bwahaha:

Hahaha... kinda like how people feel after watching F and F? :D

In the end, keep it safe. Bad trip mag tow ng kotse from there (Glennster and myself had to do that one time and it took us several hours to tow the car from Infanta to Laguna).