Comelec: No national election results in 48 hours

[badsekktor]

i must admit that an unfortunate situation in this automation effort is that many are uninformed or misinformed including you. but i'll make myself clear that i don't blame you.

regarding the security of votes, i have no hands on experience on the matter but a relative of mine working for a congressman attested to its reliability and security.

granting that voters fill up the ballots correctly, it will be immediately fed into the machine (up to 4 tries) after which a confirmation receipt will be printed.

at the end of the day, the summary of the votes will also be printed by the machines. it looked like a long grocery receipt from what i've personally seen. i assume major political parties will be provided by this tally of votes.

now we all know that the electronic data will be transferred via the cellsites (i don't know the right term). anyway, if that effort fails, the election officials can use another SIM. if that fails, they can use a satellite transmitter.

Again, i am not attacking the security issue of the system that is going to be implemented this coming elections. I'm pretty sure it is secure. IT SHOULD BE! Just like the PCOS machines bought before it should surpass the security features offered by that older PCOS machine.
A collegue of mine belong to the auditing team that tested the older PCOS devices and he said that the system is quite secure. It is just sad that these machines are collecting dust. We paid for it but never used. And we are still paying for the storage of those devices.

Now, about the current PCOS machines, Like I said in my previous post, I'm not going to question the integrity of the data. What I am questioning is the time factor on which how they are going to accomplish the required task. If they could only produce an output similar to the manual counting, What improvement does it have to offer? is it worth it? We must remember that these are machines and they do have to be maintained and stored properly after it is used. It would take up precious resources from the government just by maintaining and storing the devices.

If it cannot speed up the process then why bother? Integrity of the election result is every person's goal, especially for the candidates themselves. Now why do we need to speed up the process? It is because the longer the results are hanging, the greater the chance of getting fraudulent results. And the harder it is to guard the votes. That is how important it is to the voting public and to the candidates themselves.

Now, how come your relative who works for a congressman knows better than anybody of us here? Hindi ba comelec at media ang kasamang nagtest ng sistema? Hindi naman tinesting sa harap ng mga congresista yun mga makina. What you described is what we have seen and read already.... Care to share more so that we could be informed? I find it troublesome since we are not oriented nor informed considering the fact that there are 2 in the family running for re-election in congress, 1 for governorship and 1 for board member and we have not been informed about the process. Malapit na election, paano namin ma-oorganize ang pagbabantay sa mga boto nyan? Shame on COMELEC..... LAKAS pa naman kami....

[badsekktor]

sorry double post

[fourtheboys96]

Again, i am not attacking the security issue of the system that is going to be implemented this coming elections. I'm pretty sure it is secure. IT SHOULD BE! Just like the PCOS machines bought before it should surpass the security features offered by that older PCOS machine.
A collegue of mine belong to the auditing team that tested the older PCOS devices and he said that the system is quite secure. It is just sad that these machines are collecting dust. We paid for it but never used. And we are still paying for the storage of those devices.

Now, about the current PCOS machines, Like I said in my previous post, I'm not going to question the integrity of the data. What I am questioning is the time factor on which how they are going to accomplish the required task. If they could only produce an output similar to the manual counting, What improvement does it have to offer? is it worth it? We must remember that these are machines and they do have to be maintained and stored properly after it is used. It would take up precious resources from the government just by maintaining and storing the devices.

If it cannot speed up the process then why bother? Integrity of the election result is every person's goal, especially for the candidates themselves. Now why do we need to speed up the process? It is because the longer the results are hanging, the greater the chance of getting fraudulent results. And the harder it is to guard the votes. That is how important it is to the voting public and to the candidates themselves.

Now, how come your relative who works for a congressman knows better than anybody of us here? Hindi ba comelec at media ang kasamang nagtest ng sistema? Hindi naman tinesting sa harap ng mga congresista yun mga makina. What you described is what we have seen and read already.... Care to share more so that we could be informed? I find it troublesome since we are not oriented nor informed considering the fact that there are 2 in the family running for re-election in congress, 1 for governorship and 1 for board member and we have not been informed about the process. Malapit na election, paano namin ma-oorganize ang pagbabantay sa mga boto nyan? Shame on COMELEC..... LAKAS pa naman kami....

Improvement cannot only measured by how fast the result comes out. As I've said, lessening the opportunity for cheating is already an improvement.

And I assume, you are concerned with the result of the local election because you have family members running for a post. How about being a little bit less selfish and think about the national election. Do you think with this automation it will take the same amount of time to declare a winner as in the manual counting?

Sa harap ba ng kongresista tinest yung machine? Yun ba sabi ko? Please read back.

Isa pa, ang testing ng voting machines ay hindi limited lang sa media at comelec personnel. kahit sa opis ni misis nag demo ang comelec kung paano bumoto.

[badsekktor]

Improvement cannot only measured by how fast the result comes out. As I've said, lessening the opportunity for cheating is already an improvement.

yes integrity is a factor that needs to be addressed but like I said, it is already given. The previous election and the previous one before that and up to the first time election was held in this country. The fact is, in general, our elections have been credible already that is why I dont consider it as an improvement. Why do you think padaca won? and how about Fr. Panlilio? They are candidates that are unlikely to win but they still won. Now how do we lessen the risk of fraud in the upcoming election? well by making it computerized, Im expecting it to speed up the process, so it would limit the timeframe to which cheaters could take advantage of.

The problem is why didnt it speed up the process? what is the problem?

And I assume, you are concerned with the result of the local election because you have family members running for a post. How about being a little bit less selfish and think about the national election. Do you think with this automation it will take the same amount of time to declare a winner as in the manual counting?

Im not really concerned with them winning or not. We would only feel minimal impact, Only the constituents would feel the full blow. We will still get back to our own lives whether they win or lose.

About the national election... well, i really doubt it if they could speed it up. I say this because their basis are the votes coming from the precint level also. If they could not speed up the process for municipal and provincial levels then how do you expect them to improve in the national level.

I believe the COMELEC told reporters that they dont have a software to count the returns of the PCOS machines so its either they do it manually or through excel so it would just be like before. The consolidation of votes would be the weakest link in this procedure.

Sa harap ba ng kongresista tinest yung machine? Yun ba sabi ko? Please read back.

So how did your relative who works for a congressman could attest to its reliability and security? Anyway there have been reports that PCOS machines failing like in Masbate. Even the first testing encountered some problems. Problems will always occur since different locations would offer different variables that may induce error to the machines. I just hope COMELEC anticipated those problems before we put this system to the "real test"

Isa pa, ang testing ng voting machines ay hindi limited lang sa media at comelec personnel. kahit sa opis ni misis nag demo ang comelec kung paano bumoto.

Im not concerned about the procedure in voting since it does not concern the PCOS machines after all. If the voter did not follow the procedure then his vote would be considered as spoiled already. My issue with the system is why the hell it could not speed up the process considering it is already computerized counting?

Anyway, even my helpers knows how to vote. Thanks to ***bomb and GMA 7.

[fourtheboys96]

yes integrity is a factor that needs to be addressed but like I said, it is already given. The previous election and the previous one before that and up to the first time election was held in this country. The fact is, in general, our elections have been credible already that is why I dont consider it as an improvement. Why do you think padaca won? and how about Fr. Panlilio? They are candidates that are unlikely to win but they still won. Now how do we lessen the risk of fraud in the upcoming election? well by making it computerized, Im expecting it to speed up the process, so it would limit the timeframe to which cheaters could take advantage of.

The problem is why didnt it speed up the process? what is the problem?

If the local election result comes out in the same amount of time as in the manual counting, so be it. But that doesnt mean we should not have done automated counting. I still expect the canvassing of votes at the national level to be faster. And that I think is an improvement.

In addition, the process is actually faster. The vote tally from the precint is immediately transferred to a data center which is basically faster than manually counting and physically transporting all the documents.

What you failed to get from the article is that the Comelec won't do a summary of votes for the candidates. There will be data available at the precint level and it is up to the candidates to do the counting. And that basically caused the impression of slow count.

But since the data is with Comelec already immediately after all votes are counted (basically the same day), cheaters have less opportunity.

Im not really concerned with them winning or not. We would only feel minimal impact, Only the constituents would feel the full blow. We will still get back to our own lives whether they win or lose.

Really?

About the national election... well, i really doubt it if they could speed it up. I say this because their basis are the votes coming from the precint level also. If they could not speed up the process for municipal and provincial levels then how do you expect them to improve in the national level.

I believe the COMELEC told reporters that they dont have a software to count the returns of the PCOS machines so its either they do it manually or through excel so it would just be like before. The consolidation of votes would be the weakest link in this procedure.

On the contrary, I think results at the national level will come out faster. Why? Because as I've said, the data is immediately in the possession of Comelec.

Now if that is the case, why is it slow for the local elections? As the article stated, there are too many local candidates nationwide and making summary for each of them will be very tedious. As for the national elections, there are far fewer names to consider.

Look at it this way, in manual counting, data comes from the precint up to municipal then provincial level. So it is only natural that results at the municipal and provincial level comes out faster.

In automated counting, data is transferred from precint to a central data center where thousands of names of local candidates are in the database. But only few names for the national positions. SO fewer names, easier to sort out the votes or make a summary of.

So how did your relative who works for a congressman could attest to its reliability and security? Anyway there have been reports that PCOS machines failing like in Masbate. Even the first testing encountered some problems. Problems will always occur since different locations would offer different variables that may induce error to the machines. I just hope COMELEC anticipated those problems before we put this system to the "real test"

Read back please. I said my relative tested it personally. Then you ask why do they test it in front of a congressman. Which they did not.

Hindi sa harap nung congressman tinest. Sa harap nung tauhan/representative niya kasama ng iba pang tao. At isa pa, wala naman cguro masama i-test yun sa harap ng pulitiko i ba?

Im not concerned about the procedure in voting since it does not concern the PCOS machines after all. If the voter did not follow the procedure then his vote would be considered as spoiled already. My issue with the system is why the hell it could not speed up the process considering it is already computerized counting?

Anyway, even my helpers knows how to vote. Thanks to ***bomb and GMA 7.

good for your helpers. i hope many of our kababayans already know what to do come election day.

[badsekktor]

If the local election result comes out in the same amount of time as in the manual counting, so be it. But that doesnt mean we should not have done automated counting. I still expect the canvassing of votes at the national level to be faster. And that I think is an improvement.

Like I have said before, I am not against the automation. I'm just curious why it would take 2-3 days for the municipal and provincial level. About speeding up the canvassing in national level? well... Lets see about that.

In addition, the process is actually faster. The vote tally from the precint is immediately transferred to a data center which is basically faster than manually counting and physically transporting all the documents.

ah so a data center located where? is that a central data center or a distributed one? so you are expecting that everybody should just wait for Comelec to proclaim the winners after feeding your ballot to the PCOS machine? now how do you expect the integrity of the results then? especially on national level...

What you failed to get from the article is that the Comelec won't do a summary of votes for the candidates. There will be data available at the precint level and it is up to the candidates to do the counting. And that basically caused the impression of slow count.

Then how are they going to proclaim the winners if they are not going to summarize the election returns from the precint level? You dont expect the candidates going to Comelec and claim that they won the election basing on the returns they possess right?

But since the data is with Comelec already immediately after all votes are counted (basically the same day), cheaters have less opportunity.

Basing from my experience, usually a cheater have cohorts inside Comelec so what stops them from cheating if there is no transparency in the process?

Really?

yep! definitely!

On the contrary, I think results at the national level will come out faster. Why? Because as I've said, the data is immediately in the possession of Comelec.

well why dont we just spare ourselves the burden and do away with this right to suffrage and lets just make Comelec proclaim the president. If data would be transmitted directly to a central depository without any confirming entity from the parties involved and the summarization is done without any transparency, how do you expect the results to be true or not?

Now if that is the case, why is it slow for the local elections? As the article stated, there are too many local candidates nationwide and making summary for each of them will be very tedious. As for the national elections, there are far fewer names to consider.

have you considered the number of precints nationwide? national elections means more precints that would need to transfer and if there is a central database, that would become a bottleneck and would cause errors. Similar to a website if it gets lots of visitors then errors arises. Now if there are problems like that, I dont think it would speed up the process.

Look at it this way, in manual counting, data comes from the precint up to municipal then provincial level. So it is only natural that results at the municipal and provincial level comes out faster.

There is a reason why counting of votes follows that procedure. it is called TRANSPARENCY AND EFFICIENCY. Try counting everything in a central location and i assure you chaos will happen.

In automated counting, data is transferred from precint to a central data center where thousands of names of local candidates are in the database. But only few names for the national positions. SO fewer names, easier to sort out the votes or make a summary of.

ah so that would mean a bottleneck for the data being sent. Now good luck about the integrity of the data if they intend to implement it that way... not only the integrity but the speed. Wired connections from time to time, encounters errors if huge traffic is introduced, how much more for wireless data transfer. now I like to see how they pull this one off.

Read back please. I said my relative tested it personally. Then you ask why do they test it in front of a congressman. Which they did not.

Hindi sa harap nung congressman tinest. Sa harap nung tauhan/representative niya kasama ng iba pang tao. At isa pa, wala naman cguro masama i-test yun sa harap ng pulitiko i ba?

ah ok so there is no need to mention that he works for a congressman.

ah! They tested the voting process and the transmission of data... The voting process doesnt concern me since feeding the ballot is still by single sheets. The problem is with getting the results and summarizing the returns. Is there any test about multiple PCOS machines transmitting data at the same time? how about trying a hundred at the same time. Anyway, im not really interested how he/she knew about it.

Im interested about how they are going to count the votes without taking away transparency of the whole process.

good for your helpers. i hope many of our kababayans already know what to do come election day.

Well that is why there are facilitators in the area, so that they could assist the voters right?

[fourtheboys96]

you said you have no qualms about integrity. your concern is about the speed of canvassing? well, just to answer you question, i am pretty sure poll watchers of all parties concerned will not disappear just because of the automation.

i have already answered all your questions. this discussion is going in circles.

[fourtheboys96]

you said you have no qualms about integrity. your concern is about the speed of canvassing? well, just to answer you question, i am pretty sure poll watchers of all parties concerned will not disappear just because of the automation.

i have already answered all your questions. this discussion is going in circles.