Arroya as a Nazi?

[buriroy]

Hitler then, acted mainly on his beliefs, albeit a warped one.

GMA now, acts for greed/lust for power.

There is a difference.

Good point. For me, the most evil people on earth are those (with power) who could have made a difference and lifted their people out of misery and poverty but chose to go the other way and through corruption worked mainly for the enrichment of his/her own family. Such is Gloria Arroyo.
Germany in the 1930s was in an economic rut and Hitler was able to transform Germany to a prosperous nation. At least he dearly loved his own people and strived to make them a 'master' race. But I will not condone his warped way of thinking that came at the expense of other nations.

[Helios]

gloria and adolf? not even near the vicinity. i guess even the marcoses would give her the brush-off. she's no tyrant, just plain 'ol greedy little plunderer- diosdado would've been turning over

[Jun aka Pekto]

Good point. For me, the most evil people on earth are those (with power) who could have made a difference and lifted their people out of misery and poverty but chose to go the other way and through corruption worked mainly for the enrichment of his/her own family. Such is Gloria Arroyo.
Germany in the 1930s was in an economic rut and Hitler was able to transform Germany to a prosperous nation. At least he dearly loved his own people and strived to make them a 'master' race. But I will not condone his warped way of thinking that came at the expense of other nations.

Hitler was Austrian. Albert Einstein was far more German than Adolf Hitler. But, he would've died in Hitler's Nazi Germany if he didn't flee in time.

There's not one leader in the Philippines past or present who can equate to one of the most evil men in history.

Also, Nazi Germany became prosperous because Hitler put the country on a war footing and expanded his armed forces extensively in violation of the Versailles Treaty. The Allies should've put a stop to it then. But, they didn't. That was the first of many hesitations that eventually led to WW2.

My generation, yours, and those after us are extremely lucky not to have lived at a time of a world war. There are people still alive who went through such harrowing times. I can't speak for everyone. But, I try not to trivialize what they went through and to keep things in perspective.

[buriroy]

Hitler was Austrian. Albert Einstein was far more German than Adolf Hitler. But, he would've died in Hitler's Nazi Germany if he didn't flee in time.

There's not one leader in the Philippines past or present who can equate to one of the most evil men in history.

Also, Nazi Germany became prosperous because Hitler put the country on a war footing and expanded his armed forces extensively in violation of the Versailles Treaty. The Allies should've put a stop to it then. But, they didn't. That was the first of many hesitations that eventually led to WW2.

My generation, yours, and those after us are extremely lucky not to have lived at a time of a world war. There are people still alive who went through such harrowing times. I can't speak for everyone. But, I try not to trivialize what they went through and to keep things in perspective.

I still stand by what I said that leaders who work for their own selfish ends by enriching themselves and their family at the expense of their countrymen whom they have sworn to serve are far more evil than "megalomaniacs" like Hitler who, though being fanatics to the extreme, at least have the welfare of his people in mind. The German people adored and idolized him and willingly went to war becase they truly believed that he was working for the advancement of the German people. If he had been corrupt and "tongpats-oriented", the Germans would have junked him pronto.
Besides, if Germany has won WW2, then the most evil would have been Harry Truman, who nuked Nagasaki and Horoshima and caused hundreds of thousands of grisly civilian deaths, the effects of which are still being felt to this day. Come to think of it, the US of A is the only nation to have used a nuclear device on a hapless civilian population. If that's not evil, I don't know
what else is.

[explorer]

I still stand by what I said that leaders who work for their own selfish ends by enriching themselves and their family at the expense of their countrymen whom they have sworn to serve are far more evil than "megalomaniacs" like Hitler who, though being fanatics to the extreme, at least have the welfare of his people in mind.

i agree. plus all those crimes by hitller were done during war time....gloria's and her family's crimes were committed during peace time and against their own race...the filipino people.

[Jun aka Pekto]

I still stand by what I said that leaders who work for their own selfish ends by enriching themselves and their family at the expense of their countrymen whom they have sworn to serve are far more evil than "megalomaniacs" like Hitler who, though being fanatics to the extreme, at least have the welfare of his people in mind. The German people adored and idolized him and willingly went to war becase they truly believed that he was working for the advancement of the German people. If he had been corrupt and "tongpats-oriented", the Germans would have junked him pronto.
Besides, if Germany has won WW2, then the most evil would have been Harry Truman, who nuked Nagasaki and Horoshima and caused hundreds of thousands of grisly civilian deaths, the effects of which are still being felt to this day. Come to think of it, the US of A is the only nation to have used a nuclear device on a hapless civilian population. If that's not evil, I don't know
what else is.

You mentioned "have at least the welfare of his people in mind" and "for the advancement of the German people". Think about that for a moment. Not all Germans were "Nordic" quality. Those who weren't either left the country or were interred in the camps.

Try to imagine what Hitler's brand of rule would be like in the Philippines. If you're not light-complexioned and have movie star quality looks, you would be picked up in the middle of the night. If you're dark and your nose is flat, you'll be marked because having a flat nose (or "pango" according to the wife) would be a "genetic defect" and considered ugly. A dark complexion is the color of dirt and would be treated as such. You and your family would be blacklisted and later picked up never to be heard from again, your property and assets taken. Even now, there are many in the Philippines who consider a light complexion and a pointy, well-tapered nose desirable. What if one such person assumed the mantle of power and decreed only such people were fit to live? How would you feel if you have brown skin and a flat nose?

Hitler favored only the "Aryan" race, those that fit his image of what the master race should be and not all the German people. Albert Einstein was born and raised as a German. He was idolized in Germany and around the world for his theories before Hitler came along. Yet, Hitler would've killed Einstein and others like him.

Hitler assumed power in 1933. World War 2 didn't officially start until 1939. That's six years Hitler had to consolidate his power. During those six years, he eliminated the communists and others he considered as a threat including his own Nazi cronies. Hitler extended his reach to the very fabric of German society. Children were encouraged to join Hitler Youth and other similar organizations where they were taught Nazi ideals and to spy on/report any adult who have opinions contrary to the state.

If you think it's easy to simply rise up against Hitler then consider this.

The Japanese threw the Americans out of the Philippines in 1942 and ruled the Philippines with an iron fist, committing many atrocities along the way. The Filipinos outnumbered them many magnitudes over. Why didn't the population simply rise up and throw the Japanese out? It's not that easy.

If the Nazis won the war, it meant they won the race to get the nukes and used them first because nukes would be the only way they can defeat the Allies at the west and the Soviets to the east. Germany simply didn't have the numbers once the US joined the Allies.

I don't doubt the questions raised about Truman's use of the bombs. He had his reasons. After four years of war in the Pacific, everyone pretty much knew the Japanese would fight to the last man, woman, and child if the Allies invaded Japan. Would it be better for the Allies to invade and risk losing a million soldiers plus countless millions of Japanese soldiers and civilians or drop the bomb and convince the Japanese to unconditionally surrender? Truman chose the bomb. One was dropped and the Japanese said nothing. Another was dropped and the Japanese finally got the idea.

My father got orphaned during the war. He has no regrets about those Japanese who were vaporized in the atomic blasts. In fact at one time, he wished there were more than two that were dropped. To him, that's war being brought home to the Japanese and payback. He toned down his feelings since. But, that's what the trauma of war does to a person. I was born in Japan and have made many trips there. Been there. Worked there. Made friends there. I like the place and the people. I don't need to forgive because there's no crime that was done to me. But, I don't forget what happened to my father.

[buriroy]

I don't doubt the questions raised about Truman's use of the bombs. He had his reasons. After four years of war in the Pacific, everyone pretty much knew the Japanese would fight to the last man, woman, and child if the Allies invaded Japan. Would it be better for the Allies to invade and risk losing a million soldiers plus countless millions of Japanese soldiers and civilians or drop the bomb and convince the Japanese to unconditionally surrender? Truman chose the bomb. One was dropped and the Japanese said nothing. Another was dropped and the Japanese finally got the idea.

My father got orphaned during the war. He has no regrets about those Japanese who were vaporized in the atomic blasts. In fact at one time, he wished there were more than two that were dropped. To him, that's war being brought home to the Japanese and payback. He toned down his feelings since. But, that's what the trauma of war does to a person. I was born in Japan and have made many trips there. Been there. Worked there. Made friends there. I like the place and the people. I don't need to forgive because there's no crime that was done to me. But, I don't forget what happened to my father.

There is no justification whatsoever on God's earth of detonating a nuclear bomb a few thousand feet above the middle of a city that would surely kill hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women. and children and cause cancers and mutant defects to their offspring for several generations to come. This is simply inhuman and downright evil that would make Osama Bin Laden's 9/11 act look like a teenage prank. The U.S. was at war with Japan and the right thing that should have been done was to continue with pinpoint bombing of military and arms installations and not target civilians directly. Truman just didn't want to lose any more American soldiers and pilots but to do it at the expense of non-combatants and killing them wholesale is downright barbaric. As I said, if Germany had won the war, then Truman, Churchill, and the rest of the Allied leaders would be the war criminals and surely hanged. Yes, Hitler is an evil man but others too have blood on their hands and have been made to look like heroes because they won the war. Hitler won't be all alone occupying the top spot in hell. Truman, Marcos, and Gloria Arroyo will be right up there with him.

[Gen. Miting]

tingin ko after the atomic bomb hit japan. mas lalo pa tumalino pag hapon. ano kaya sa radiation kaya 'to kaya yun mga pinanganak nun araw mas magaling pa kaysa kanino sa asia kaya ang hi-tech ng japan

[Jun aka Pekto]

There is no justification whatsoever on God's earth of detonating a nuclear bomb a few thousand feet above the middle of a city that would surely kill hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women. and children and cause cancers and mutant defects to their offspring for several generations to come. This is simply inhuman and downright evil that would make Osama Bin Laden's 9/11 act look like a teenage prank. The U.S. was at war with Japan and the right thing that should have been done was to continue with pinpoint bombing of military and arms installations and not target civilians directly. Truman just didn't want to lose any more American soldiers and pilots but to do it at the expense of non-combatants and killing them wholesale is downright barbaric. As I said, if Germany had won the war, then Truman, Churchill, and the rest of the Allied leaders would be the war criminals and surely hanged. Yes, Hitler is an evil man but others too have blood on their hands and have been made to look like heroes because they won the war. Hitler won't be all alone occupying the top spot in hell. Truman, Marcos, and Gloria Arroyo will be right up there with him.

Of course it's evil to nuke those civilians. It's also evil for the Japanese to use babies for bayonet practice along with the killing of hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians in Nanking. War is hell whichever way you look at it. But don't make the Japanese who died in the atomic blasts as special. The Japanese had already made it clear that civilians were okay to target long before the atomic blasts. If you believe the BS Japanese are teaching their kids now that such massacres never occurred, then tell that to the Chinese. They'll be happy to educate you.

The Italians had already targeted and bombed civilians during their taking of Ethiopea. The Germans already made civilians a target by bombing Guernica during the Spanish Civil War. Then they foolishly targeted London during the Battle of Britain, opening the way for the RAF's area bombing campaign. They (the Axis) already started the road to total war in the years before WW2. Don't try to compare the line of thinking then to the line of thinking today. Times then were very different. Total war was a very real and horrific concept.

And just to see another what-if. Do you really think the Axis Powers would be as generous as the Allies were in rebuilding Germany and Japan as we've seen if the roles were reversed? That, I'd like to see. Look no further than Stalin. Although Stalin was evil as well, he was a necessary evil in the fight against Germany. After the war was won, he kept East Germany while NATO kept West Germany. The differences in each Germany showed just how far apart each recovered from the war.

And no. I'm no fan of Truman myself.

[chua_riwap]

Ha-ha! Let's change na lang the thread title..........