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  1. Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    113
    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by alwayz_yummy
    sir Shadetree MKNX,

    i drive both a/t and m/t...i i agree with anyone else that you dont need to shift to "n" in a matic or press the the clutch before you brake....

    sir otep and sir mazdamazda answered it..and heres my layman's explanation:

    on a a/t:you dont need to put to "n", because..once you release the gas pedal on your speeding vehicle,the engine will lower engine speed, so it will no make the vehicle move faster than the point where you release the gas..test it on a open road and see your a/t vehicle will gradually decelerate to 5-10kph with out stepping on the pedal on a long open straight road...for example, an airstrip..applaying your brakes will hasten this effect, and your engine will not die even if you stop to a halt at "D".

    on a m/t:try to release your gas pedal, and feel the engine labor...this is what you call engine braking....why you should step first on the brake?simple, the engine itself, when at gear, when you release the gas,your engine labors so in effect your m/t vehicle will slow down until the engine stops...then eventually, the vehicle itself stops. it is recommended that you should apply brakes first until such time when you feel your vehicle is stalling/needs to change gear, then thats the time you press the clutch..

    im no racer...i have no such experience or knowledge in racing...im just a person whose life is in everyday driving..and learned everything right based on my experiences.so take my advice..

    stop that bad habit of yours...you'll never know when is the time you'll regret that you hit an innocent child because of your bad habit.
    Sir,

    First of all I would like to acknowledge the nobility and sincerity of your advice. Thank you for your genuine concern.

    However, your above post has made it obvious to me how you have grossly misunderstood me all along.

    Allow me to clarify once again the main point of my discussion:

    I do not believe, nor am I conveying the idea, that it is NECESSARY to
    (a)shift an a/t into neutral, or
    (b)step on the clutch of an m/t, when making a stop.

    What I'm trying to convey here has something to do with EMERGENCY BRAKING.... not "conventional stopping".


    As I've said before, I have both theorized and proven to myself (though not by quantitative means), that:

    (a)shifting an a/t into neutral, or
    (b)applying the clutch on an m/t,

    will result in a shorter stopping distance in the event of emergency braking/stopping.

    Since you seem to believe that I somehow do not understand what "engine braking" means, I assure you I do. Now, my question to you is this: Do you know what MMI and dashpot are? I ask you not because I want to showcase what little "scrounged up" bits of knowledge I have, but rather to make a point.

    Once again, I thank you for your genuine concern, and I hope I've made my point a bit clearer this time.

  2. Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    113
    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by mazdamazda
    btw... emergency braking isn't just about stopping in the shortest distance...

    it is having control of your car while braking hard & trying to manuever it out of harm's way.

    btw, what's faster:

    stomping on the brakes then turning the wheels (to avoid the said object)?

    or

    stomp on the brakes, let one hand leave the steering wheel (which will be useless when your wheels lockup) then pop the shifter into neutral?

    If the driver has decided in a split second, to swerve around an obstacle, which do you think is going to happen first, him yanking the steering or him stepping on the brakes?

    Of course, he's going to yank on the steering first. Why? Because his hands are already on the steering wheel, while his right foot is still coming out of the gas.

    Because steering is more of in immediate access to the driver the timing of the application of the brakes, clutch, and shifter, become irrelevant until afterwards.

    Besides, it is also a generally good idea to stop rather than just to swerve blindly. Unless yours is the only vehicle on the road, you run a good risk of hitting cars beside or behind you, or worse, the oncoming traffic, if you make it a habit to swerve around an obstacle.

    In fact, it might even be more dangerous to develop the habit of swerving, than to practice the habit of hitting the clutch, or shifting an a/t into neutral.

    (BTW, it's gotten more and more difficult for me to post with my slow dial-up connxn. I found out I had to log on everytime I need to make a post, hence my slow response.)

  3. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    14,825
    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetree MKNX
    Besides, it is also a generally good idea to stop rather than just to swerve blindly. Unless yours is the only vehicle on the road, you run a good risk of hitting cars beside or behind you, or worse, the oncoming traffic, if you make it a habit to swerve around an obstacle.
    It isn't a choice between stopping & swerving... why pick only one when you can do both? That is why the ABS is becoming a standard among cars nowadays...

    Believe me... the ABS has already saved me a couple of times (coupled with the brake then steer technique)!

    The most memorable is in our parking lot in the office which was newly painted & wet (from the rain). A very lethal mix when I turned a bit fast on a corner... the brakes were practically useless but I was still able to steer safely out of the obstacle (with just inches to spare).

  4. Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    113
    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by mazdamazda
    It isn't a choice between stopping & swerving... why pick only one when you can do both? That is why the ABS is becoming a standard among cars nowadays...

    Believe me... the ABS has already saved me a couple of times (coupled with the brake then steer technique)!

    The most memorable is in our parking lot in the office which was newly painted & wet (from the rain). A very lethal mix when I turned a bit fast on a corner... the brakes were practically useless but I was still able to steer safely out of the obstacle (with just inches to spare).
    For parking lot maneuvers, it would definitely be frivolous to "slap the a/t into neutral" everytime you need to stop.

    I was thinking more of regular highway traffic and speeds where the unexpected can happen real fast, and there is very little time to think and react.

    My idea of getting into the habit of slapping the a/t into neutral reduces the amount of things I have to check and consider before I react to any given traffic emergency. Diving to the right or left is kind of like a 3rd, even 4th option for me because I am usually in a relaxed state, and not in a state of heightened awareness, to be constantly aware of what's going on behind and beside me.

    I have to admit, leaving both hands on the steering wheel should afford you the advantage of being able to steer better than with only the left hand on the wheel. However, I would also have to assert the fact that stopping in a straight line will definitely be much quicker with the a/t shifted into neutral. Perhaps, this is what Mercedes had in mind when they decided to develop their "brake assist" technology.

    Given the way this discussion has turned out, I must agree with Mazdamazda that braking and steering is best carried out with both hands on the wheel. Just make sure you know where you're steering into.

  5. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    14,825
    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetree MKNX
    For parking lot maneuvers, it would definitely be frivolous to "slap the a/t into neutral" everytime you need to stop.
    Am travelling at a fast pace going to towards the exit... not really a parking lot manuever. Hehe. Really caught me off guard!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetree MKNX
    However, I would also have to assert the fact that stopping in a straight line will definitely be much quicker with the a/t shifted into neutral. Perhaps, this is what Mercedes had in mind when they decided to develop their "brake assist" technology.
    MB's Brake Assist works differently. It will try to "learn" the braking habits of a driver. Then assess whether or not you are braking normally or if it is an emergency case. If it detects that it is the latter, it will electronically "assist" you in applying full braking power (since most of us don't have enough reflxes to apply full braking power). Read more about it here: http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_010501.htm

    Will though experiment which braking technique would be better (either clutch w/ brake or brake first, clutch later) for a manual tranny.

  6. Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    286
    #46
    I tried slowing down from 40kph to 10kph really fast when I double clutched then pop the stick to 1st gear without stepping on the brakes that much. From time to time, I practice heel and toe when the road is clear.

  7. Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    113
    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by mazdamazda
    Am travelling at a fast pace going to towards the exit... not really a parking lot manuever. Hehe. Really caught me off guard!!!



    MB's Brake Assist works differently. It will try to "learn" the braking habits of a driver. Then assess whether or not you are braking normally or if it is an emergency case. If it detects that it is the latter, it will electronically "assist" you in applying full braking power (since most of us don't have enough reflxes to apply full braking power). Read more about it here: http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_010501.htm

    Will though experiment which braking technique would be better (either clutch w/ brake or brake first, clutch later) for a manual tranny.
    I already know about M-B's Brake Assist. What I meant was I think their engineers figured out how the engine adds more work for the brakes during emergency braking, hence the need to further boost the already boosted hydraulic system during such event. I suppose they could further refine the system by causing the electronically-controlled A/T to disengage the forward clutch when Brake-Assist is being activated. The clutch would then be re-engaged the moment the system returns to normal mode.

  8. Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,057
    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by mazdamazda
    Am travelling at a fast pace going to towards the exit... not really a parking lot manuever. Hehe. Really caught me off guard!!!



    MB's Brake Assist works differently. It will try to "learn" the braking habits of a driver. Then assess whether or not you are braking normally or if it is an emergency case. If it detects that it is the latter, it will electronically "assist" you in applying full braking power (since most of us don't have enough reflxes to apply full braking power). Read more about it here: http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_010501.htm

    Will though experiment which braking technique would be better (either clutch w/ brake or brake first, clutch later) for a manual tranny.
    pano kung walang break assist ang asa likod mo at nag super break ka sapul ang likod mo dapat naka break assist lahat kotse kung implement nila yan!!!

  9. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    14,825
    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetree MKNX
    What I meant was I think their engineers figured out how the engine adds more work for the brakes during emergency braking, hence the need to further boost the already boosted hydraulic system during such event.
    What they are trying to improve is the driver reaction time & application of full brakes during an emergency...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadetree MKNX
    I suppose they could further refine the system by causing the electronically-controlled A/T to disengage the forward clutch when Brake-Assist is being activated. The clutch would then be re-engaged the moment the system returns to normal mode.
    You'll lose much of your steering capability if that happens. As what I've said... braking + steering is the best way to avoid an obstacle.

    If you really want to apply full braking power... then just pull up your emergency brakes. It is that simple.

  10. Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    22,705
    #50
    actually, the e-brake won't make you stop any faster if you're already on the brakes, as all the weight of your car is shifted to the front.

    It will help you swap ends (spin sideways) quite easily though... although whether that's a good thing or not is debatable. :D

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

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Cruising in Neutral: Bad?