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  1. Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    8,837
    #161
    Quote Originally Posted by niky
    people remember Marcos. That's why there's such a strong anti-chacha sentiment. Also, chacha favors the trapo. With power in parliament held by regional warlords and dynasties, influence peddling & politicking will pick our next national leader, not informed decision making...(yeah, not much worse than now, but...) so, under parliament, our next head of state may well be the ultimate trapo... JDV.


    I like to compare the parliamentary system to a private corporation.

    in a corporation

    -stockholders/shareholders/employees with stock options elect board of directors, then board of directors choose chairman/CEO. if CEO/chairman becomes incompetent, the board of directors can quickly correct the deficiency by voting him/her out.

    in a parliamentary system

    -people/citizens elect members of parliament, then members elect a PM. if PM becomes corrupt, the members of parliaments can do the same action. hindi naman siguro realistic that a PM controls all members of parliament. mas maging ok nga kasi maging two-party system. pro-PM vs. anti-PM.

    wala ng third force, fourth force like what we have now: FVR/JDV force, Erap/Lacson Force, Magdalo/YOU Force, Communist Force, then we have the Liberals, the Lakas and sino pa ba ang gulo-gulo.




    we pinoys are very successful in operating/working inside/under corporations. I see no hindrance how we can be ineffective under parliamentary rule.
    Last edited by oldblue; April 7th, 2006 at 03:55 AM.

  2. Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,177
    #162
    Sir niky, just wanna show you, here's where I based my opinion:

    Quote Originally Posted by explorer
    ...Then again, the underlying message of the open letter was to ‘move on’ which dovetailed with the regime’s marching hymn ever since the Garci tapes issue came to fore. The open letter was practically addressed to everyone who opposed Gloria M. Arroyo. It ended with the assertion that if there is anyone that the author (and those who share his opinion) should be protected from—it should be from all those who now oppose the regime.
    A disingenous ploy. Mr. Esposo implies that Mr. Austero said "all those..."

    Quote Originally Posted by explorer
    ...I do not have any love lost with the opposition groups that make up the ragtag political remnants of the Marcos and Estrada regimes, but I will be lying if I said they are all bad.

    As an opposition group, the PMP-LDP-PDP-Laban coalition may have a serious credibility problem but people like Senators Serge Osmena and Nene Pimentel, for instance, are exceptions. There are also many others who do not belong to the PMP-LDP-PDP-Laban coalition who oppose Gloria M. Arroyo and are respectable public servants with untainted public service track records...

    How can Bong Austero generalize media? ...He does the same with all businessmen. One can easily see that the majority of the Makati Business Club does not stand on the same platform with Donald Dee.
    Here, Mr. Esposo makes what I believe to be an excellent and convincing case of discrediting Mr. Austero, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by explorer
    Where does Bong Austero draw the line when he includes Cory Aquino, the undisputed icon of the restoration of our freedoms, in criticisms that are better directed to the opposition parties that are linked with the Marcos and Estrada regimes? How does Austero defend his conclusion that Gloria M. Arroyo, who has transformed our democracy into a virtual de facto dictatorship, is a better choice over what Cory Aquino is fighting for these days? Cory Aquino has consistently championed democracy. It would have been far more convenient in the political and economic sense for Cory Aquino to just remain silent about the issues that hound Gloria M. Arroyo. Madame Arroyo, who had been cozying up to Cory Aquino until the time when Cory Aquino asked her to resign in July last year, would not have pressed for the inclusion of the Cojuangco family’s Hacienda Luisita in the Agrarian Reform land distribution program. But because she stayed committed to democracy, Cory Aquino’s family is now poised to lose their single biggest asset.
    ... big mistake here. This one-sided defense of Cory conveniently forgets the fact that Cory is every bit the opportunist (Marines HQ "prayer"). There are many who question why Hacienda Luisita was safe when their lands were CARPed. Now, Mr. Esposo has made that mysterious CARP-immunity look like a right and privilege being taken away by an oppressive government. Now, how do you drum up support from thinking people by being as 'kupal' as this?

    Quote Originally Posted by explorer
    Just as Bong Austero generalized the people he chose to criticize, he also sounded as if all of them are coup plotters. To begin with, the February 24 aborted event was not a coup. Even Generals Generoso Senga and Hermogenes Esperon, Jr. said that it was not a coup. What was planned last February 24 was a rehash of the January 21, 2001 script of EDSA II. How can that be legal in 2001 and now be illegal and subversive in 2006?
    I dunno, AFAIK, the official line is there was a coup which was aborted. Whether we believe this or not, Mr. Esposo seems to have inside knowledge of what went on last Feb... Btw, I think EDSA II was highly illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by explorer
    Austero makes a big issue about the failure of the opposition forces to make a case for democracy, emphasizing their failure to make the constitutional process work.
    Yes. Finally, the gist of Mr. Austero's letter is understood.

    Quote Originally Posted by explorer
    He has conveniently forgotten that a tyranny of numbers in Congress, powered by patronage and selfish interests, killed the impeachment case against Madame Arroyo. He has also failed to see that EO 464 has virtually removed another major constitutional avenue—Senate investigation—for ferreting out the truth. Austero sees the effect of the failure of the constitutional processes but fails to see the cause of that failure.

    He also forgot that, being a stakeholder of democracy, he has as much responsibility to make that case. His duty as a stakeholder compels him to take an active role in providing the mechanism for correcting the bad performance of the elected or appointed managers of the country. This country is in the rut it is in because of people who do not fulfill their role as citizens of a democracy.
    Now, Mr. Esposo is making a lame excuse for the opposition not getting its act together. And then, conveniently blames certain people for not supporting the opposition... (starting here, it gets better)

    Quote Originally Posted by explorer
    Austero assumes that our country can take off without addressing the serious need for system reform and the current issues that are weighing us down. He sounds like the regime’s “moving on” theme song. The fact is we have not gotten anywhere because we never really confronted and solved our real problems. You cannot move on if part of you is pulled back by a culture badly eroded by the consequences of political greed, arrogance, deceit and corruption which forms part of the regime’s recipe to perpetuate itself. Moving on with our unsettled issues is illusory, no different from the illusion of the man who thought that not even God can sink the Titanic.
    Aha! The gist of Mr. Austero's letter remains unanswered. Instead, Mr. Esposo says people like Mr. Austero are now supporting this terrible predicament...

    Quote Originally Posted by explorer
    I will defend the right of Bong Austero to make his assertions but I also reserve the right to challenge those sweeping judgments that were made on the basis of a rather shallow appreciation of the political landscape, more so when his conclusions tend to mislead rather shed light on the festering issues confronting our nation. Everyone is free to swim in depths way beyond their familiar fathom. But we have the responsibility to inform others who may end up drowning in those depths.

    What I find surprising is the way the upper and middle classes seem to identify with what Bong Austero said. If that is the pulse of the Philippine middle class, then this country will never recover in this generation. The middle class is supposed to be engine of reform of a society. Not weighed down by the vested interests that dictate upper class behavior, the middle class leads the masses towards the reforms that they need in order to rise above poverty and exploitation. People Power was a middle class achievement.

    Middle class reaction to Bong Austero reminds me of the same attitude of this same sector which allowed Marcos to get away with Martial Law for over 14 years. In fact Austero’s generalized statements on the opposition forces are much the same things many of the upper and middle classes used to say about Ninoy Aquino and the opposition then. Just as the leftists and ‘coup plotters’ are tagged these days as the menace of society, Ninoy then was portrayed in the same light.
    ...Here we are. Mr. Esposo says that Mr. Austero is wrong in generalizing the opposition, the media, and the businessmen. And now, here he is generalizing that the middle and upper class are a$$holes who don't support his, and the opposition's, cause. That's why they can't get their act together. Awww. Wittle baby dint get his candy? Awww. That's so cuuute!

    Quote Originally Posted by explorer
    They said then that Marcos wasn’t perfect but compared to the opposition, Marcos was better. In effect, Austero is also saying that despite what Gloria M. Arroyo has done to our institutions and our democracy, she is better than all those who are opposing her.

    It took the August 21, 1983 murder of Ninoy Aquino moments after he returned from exile to rouse the middle class. It was only when the blood of a martyr for democracy was shed that they realized the damage that the Marcos dictatorship has brought upon the country.

    I can understand how people then came to those conclusions. Media was totally controlled. You read what Marcos allowed you to read. That is not the same situation today.
    What a nice denouement. It's always wonderful to bring Macoy vs Ninoy up, no? Hence, my post... Yes sir, Mr. Esposo, I don't need you putting your foot in your mouth. I'm asking you... where's your Ninoy?

    Please don't get me wrong. I'm not an Austero apologist. In fact, I disagree with certain parts of his letter. However, I do not find there the generalizations nor condescension I find in Mr. Esposo's letter. He sounds like a Democrat whining about how so many rednecks seem to have come out to support Bush. Tsk tsk. No way sir, you not gettin no support from me. Get your act together first.

  3. Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    22,705
    #163
    Well, the point is, there is no Ninoy... and that's the only difference. :-)

    I too, disagree with Esposo on Cory Aquino (hello? what have you done for the country?... and what about her witch hunt for all her former enemies during her term?) but really, there are credible people working against GMA in a constitutional manner.

    I give that you don't have to support Mr. Esposo's position, but Mr. Austero's is just more... egh. :lol: And I do find that he generalizes, particularly as he speaks in the "we" form of voice. How can he say that people are happy with the cheating? Or that GMA has apologized for it? Hello, I watched that speech very carefully... she never apologized for cheating... she apologized merely for the lack of common sense she exhibited in "speaking to a COMELEC offical during the election". She neatly sidestepped the whole "Hello Garci" issue by apologizing for an act, but not specifically The Act. This is so as not to render herself liable to litigation or for the speech to count as a confession.

    GMA's confession was a very clever political ploy.

    And yes, Austero really doesn't make any distinction between who was in the streets. While many may have been there for selfish reasons, there are others who were genuinely protesting (no, not the "hakot" crowds or the "prayer rally" in Makati)...

    As a former UPer'... it was just too depressing to go out there and stand beside those idiots...

    And, tell me... who is this "YOU" that Austero talks about, then? (hmmmh?) He's asking for protection from... Cory? (harmless), Erap's cronies? (doubly so... they couldn't even impeach GMA)... protests? Despite the protests, our economy was unaffected... investors and bankers could see the small numbers on the streets. What did affect the market (only slightly) was the idea that the military wasn't on GMA's side.

    Protests have never hurt our economy... graft and corruption does. I don't get why it was okay then, and "destabilizing and anti-Philippines" now.

    I'm personally not marching in the street because I see GMA's politically suicidal tendencies in all that she's done. She's alienated some of her closest allies and biggest assets in her Cabinet (over the years)... how can she run the country effectively if all she will have left at the end of her term are yes-men?

    She's managed to turn some of her major allies away in the Senate... she's locking horns with her biggest non-House allies in the Supreme Court over Chacha... and she risked losing the Lower House with the stunt she tried to pull under 1017 (arresting Congressmen without warrants, despite the fact that Congressmen are immune to even warranted arrests while Congress is in session).

    I'm not marching because I can see her end coming... and while I don't like the instability that implies, she brought it all upon herself with her tremendous egotism and monomaniacal beief in her own ability. I give her two more impeachments... at the most.

    By the way, Mr. Esposo's letter is not as a veteran newsman against an amateur... merely one Atenean refuting another... merely... how can you claim to speak for all of us?

    ------

    *oldblue: That's precisely why I favor a parliamentary system... I merely outlined the "Macoy" angle as the reason why people don't like it. And the influence peddling and politicking in parliament is all-too-real. I've seen it in private boardrooms, too... heck, we've lost a lot of insurance money because of boardroom shenanigans (Nicphil... look it up), as have other people (CAP, PacificLife)... so no, it's not perfect, either... I believe a parliamentary system could work better, but we do need a clean slate for it, and keeping the current Congress (as per GMA) on as Parliament is a big no-no.

    The anti-impeachment angle is real, also. GMA has stated that even in the event that the country shifts towards a parliamentary system, that she would stay as a steward... errhh... President-Prime Minister-Parliament... see anything wrong with this?

  4. Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    4,293
    #164
    Nyeta kayo mga politiko!!! kayo ang nagpapahirap sa mg filipino..TANG NA NYO!!!

  5. Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    57
    #165
    I'm very excited of FVR's proposal... Shift to Parliament system, GMA to step down, tuloy ang election sa 2007. kaya lang malabo na mangyari to. pinatay na agad ang idea ng mga ganid na politicians to serve their personal interrest

  6. Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,310
    #166
    Quote Originally Posted by niky
    I'm personally not marching in the street because I see GMA's politically suicidal tendencies in all that she's done. She's alienated some of her closest allies and biggest assets in her Cabinet (over the years)... how can she run the country effectively if all she will have left at the end of her term are yes-men?

    She's managed to turn some of her major allies away in the Senate... she's locking horns with her biggest non-House allies in the Supreme Court over Chacha... and she risked losing the Lower House with the stunt she tried to pull under 1017 (arresting Congressmen without warrants, despite the fact that Congressmen are immune to even warranted arrests while Congress is in session).

    I'm not marching because I can see her end coming... and while I don't like the instability that implies, she brought it all upon herself with her tremendous egotism and monomaniacal beief in her own ability. I give her two more impeachments... at the most.
    You've hit the nail right on the head with this one.

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Open Letter to Our Leaders: Why We Are Not Out In The Streets