LOTR The Two Towers questions

**badkuk** · December 16th, 2004 10:44 AM

This has been bugging me for a while now....for military strategy buffs

1. Remember the scene where the orcs were posiitoned outside Helm's Deep? Why did Aragorn tell the archers to hold their fire? Wouldn't it make sense to let the archers fire at will as soon as they got in range? Why wait for them to get organized, come into formation, and get dangerously close?

2. Ehen the orcs managed to blow up a section of the wall, the archers were doing a good job holding them back. Why on earth did Aragorn tell them to charge the orcs? They could have held them at a distance with arrows, but instead they got their skinny asses kicked by twice-as-big orcs...

3. Why did Gandalf run off to fetch Eomyr, when he could have easily turned the tide at Helm's Deep if he just stayed put and blasted the orcs with magic? He's a white wizard di ba?

4. why was the only weak section of Helm's Deep -- the drain where the orcs placed the mines/bombs -- left unguarded? Even if the orcs didn't have any bombs, they could have rammed the fence a few times and get through(although it'd be tough squeezing orcs through that opening)

5. Why didn't Elrond send additional troops after sending the first one?

FrankDrebin · December 16th, 2004 11:10 AM

I'll try to answer this one with my own opinion...

1. When the orcs hold their position, I think they can raise or use their armor for defense and yet if they are moving their armor scales somewhat shows some weakness?????

2. Limited foot/swords soldiers left??????

3. Read something about this one and I believe it was well explained by the man himself Tolkien
but I forgot the URL. Try to see the internet wizard....google.??????

4. The army were not expecting any gun powder weapons from the orcs so they were confident enough from the steel mesh of the drain?????

5. In the book, no elves army where sent but if you based the story from the movie well... "Iyo lang ang mga nagvolunteer at nakayanan namin."

**mazdamazda** · December 16th, 2004 11:11 AM

1. Remember the scene where the orcs were posiitoned outside Helm's Deep? Why did Aragorn tell the archers to hold their fire? Wouldn't it make sense to let the archers fire at will as soon as they got in range? Why wait for them to get organized, come into formation, and get dangerously close?

the Elven Archers behind the walls still aren't in range (only those in the wall are). and also, firing at the middle section of the attacking troops has a higher kill ratio since they are already en masse.

2. Ehen the orcs managed to blow up a section of the wall, the archers were doing a good job holding them back. Why on earth did Aragorn tell them to charge the orcs? They could have held them at a distance with arrows, but instead they got their skinny asses kicked by twice-as-big orcs...

if they waited for the orcs to charge them, they will get annihilated much faster (since they have no manuevering room - if they have they could have continued to rain them with arrows). a charging unit has an attack bonus (Total War - haha!). on one-on-one combat, the Elves will simply outclass any Orc with their superior agility/dexterity as they can easily dodge attacks and deliver critical hits! but since they are outnumbered 20:1 they have no freakin chance in hand-to-hand combat.

though personally, I would defend a breached wall with spear-wielding infantry (and back them up with Archers). but since it was the FIRST time that a wall was breached by destroying it - they werent' prepared for it.

3. Why did Gandalf run off to fetch Eomyr, when he could have easily turned the tide at Helm's Deep if he just stayed put and blasted the orcs with magic? He's a white wizard di ba?

1 wizard against 10,000 orcs? not a chance... and also, wizards / mages aren't that as powerful in LOTR. why do you think Gandalf fought the Balrok hand-to-hand? his magical abilities only seem to enhance his fighting abilities and give him enchanted weapons.

4. why was the only weak section of Helm's Deep -- the drain where the orcs placed the mines/bombs -- left unguarded? Even if the orcs didn't have any bombs, they could have rammed the fence a few times and get through(although it'd be tough squeezing orcs through that opening)

yep... you said it... a battering ram wouldn't fit in there - let alone the orcs needed to carry it. plus, as I've said above - it was a first time that a wall was destroyed completely. before that, I would assume that you can only assault a wall by breaching it or ramming the gates.

5. Why didn't Elrond send additional troops after sending the first one?

most of Elves have already left, plus Elrond mentioned that the "time of Elves has past".

**theveed** · December 16th, 2004 11:15 AM

Originally posted by badkuk
[B]This has been bugging me for a while now....for military strategy buffs

1. Remember the scene where the orcs were posiitoned outside Helm's Deep? Why did Aragorn tell the archers to hold their fire? Wouldn't it make sense to let the archers fire at will as soon as they got in range? Why wait for them to get organized, come into formation, and get dangerously close?

I think yun sabi ni Frank at John... In addition... It's a movie

2. Ehen the orcs managed to blow up a section of the wall, the archers were doing a good job holding them back. Why on earth did Aragorn tell them to charge the orcs? They could have held them at a distance with arrows, but instead they got their skinny asses kicked by twice-as-big orcs...

Again... It's a movie

3. Why did Gandalf run off to fetch Eomyr, when he could have easily turned the tide at Helm's Deep if he just stayed put and blasted the orcs with magic? He's a white wizard di ba?

Wala nang storya kung ganun hehe.

4. why was the only weak section of Helm's Deep -- the drain where the orcs placed the mines/bombs -- left unguarded? Even if the orcs didn't have any bombs, they could have rammed the fence a few times and get through(although it'd be tough squeezing orcs through that opening)

Again, wala nang twist sa laban kung ganun....

5. Why didn't Elrond send additional troops after sending the first one?

May shooting pa sa Matrix...

:P Sorry nangungulit lang hehe

**BlueBimmer** · December 16th, 2004 11:29 AM

ok mga explanations ni M2 a..now im enlightened as well

**empy** · December 16th, 2004 11:32 AM

sa #1, all medieval war movies involving archers do this. it drives me crazy bec. i don't understand it either. i understand the "massed fire" concept if you're using slow-loading muskets, but why not pick off enemies as they're grouping, unless it's some kind of battlefield code of honor that i don't know about.

maybe it's the same code that prevents enemy robots from attacking the Voltes V team as they take a full 2 minutes "volting in", posing their robot, etc.

#3 - same question occurred to me. actually, Gandalf is basically useless in the whole trilogy when it comes to fighting, other than his normal sword skills and the fancy light from his staff. i think mazdamazda has the right answer here.

**pajerokid** · December 16th, 2004 11:36 AM

1,2) Kaunti lang ang elven archers. They are not enough to withstand a full blown orc charge. Also, arrows are more effective in volleys.... which can demoralize enemies. Also, no elves actually fought in the battle of Helmsdeep per book.

3) Maiar, AFAIK were not allowed to actively practice magic.

4) Theoden et al did not know that Helms Deep had a weakness. It's that simple.

5) The elves which allegedly fought in Helms deep were not sent by Elrond but by Celedorn and Galadriel. It's a different elven 'country'.

**pajerokid** · December 16th, 2004 11:38 AM

....and to add, Gandalf posesses a Ring of Power himself (Nenya ata or Narya, forgot which). But his ring of Power's power is to inspire the people around him to do heroic deeds. Kaya tumapang sila frodo, aragorn etc.