Power Steering Fluid ATF?

**paulgozon** · February 14th, 2010 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by bobochan789

is it ok to use ATF as power steering fluid na din? got a honda civic vti. nilagyan ko kasi ng petron premium SAE-20 yung power steering reservoir kanina, e nakita ko ngaun lang sa manual na dont use any other than OEM PS fluid ng honda.

ok lang ba ginawa ko? sabi kasi ng mechanic friend ko ATF nga daw.

Many will say, that it is better to follow Honda Genuine Power Steering Fluid, than to suffer in the long run.

But for me, its just a warranty issue, since there are no standard in Power Steering Fluid, honda are requiring owners to use their own PS fluid, unable to follow would compromise your warranty. Honda is playing safe here at the same time, generating more profits. Look under your hood (Honda Cars) "Use of oil additives might cause damaged to engine", another play safe for honda. Power steering systems are simply hydraulic system, nothing fancy, from the seals to its pumps, compared to automatic transmissions. Just like asking buyers of honda cars, that they are waiving their right to use the vehicle in the taxi business, also playing safe from their point of view.

Many will dispute me.

**oj88** · February 14th, 2010 03:49 PM

You bet ya! :D

Any hydraulic fluid will work on any hydraulic system. Yup, you read that right. But for how long it will last, that's a different matter.

Hydraulic seals are not all made from the same material. Certain compounds mixed with the wrong fluid will ruin it. When the seals are exposed to a fluid that is chemically corrosive, it can swell, crack or dissolve. The correct fluid will not react with the seal and helps along with the lubrication of the whole system.

Considering how little PSF you need to flush and change the system, why risk not getting the proper OEM fluid?

I could understand if you need 20 liters of the stuff. But in most Hondas, you'll only need around a liter of PSF (that's one bottle) to do a complete ATF change. Further, you only need to do this like once or twice every 2-3 years, at most.

Is it worth to worry about spending a bit more on OEM fluids (if cost is your argument) than say, use a "compatible" fluid, while...

a. you, not knowing if it will or will not ruin the seals? or,
b. your car starts puking the stuff only months after you changed the fluid?

No, I don't think Honda is pulling a number on us. I believe they're just doing their homework.

**CVT** · February 17th, 2010 08:09 AM

I remember encountering a batch of CVTF for Honda some years ago at True Value, Alabang.... I bought one but never used it (until now).... The following week, they're all gone... No one in the store can tell me what happened to them......

9303:grin2:

**paulgozon** · February 20th, 2010 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by oj88

You bet ya! :D

Any hydraulic fluid will work on any hydraulic system. Yup, you read that right. But for how long it will last, that's a different matter.

Hydraulic seals are not all made from the same material. Certain compounds mixed with the wrong fluid will ruin it. When the seals are exposed to a fluid that is chemically corrosive, it can swell, crack or dissolve. The correct fluid will not react with the seal and helps along with the lubrication of the whole system.

Considering how little PSF you need to flush and change the system, why risk not getting the proper OEM fluid?

I could understand if you need 20 liters of the stuff. But in most Hondas, you'll only need around a liter of PSF (that's one bottle) to do a complete ATF change. Further, you only need to do this like once or twice every 2-3 years, at most.

Is it worth to worry about spending a bit more on OEM fluids (if cost is your argument) than say, use a "compatible" fluid, while...

a. you, not knowing if it will or will not ruin the seals? or,
b. your car starts puking the stuff only months after you changed the fluid?

No, I don't think Honda is pulling a number on us. I believe they're just doing their homework.

Yes, I do understand you point, that there are many different kind of seals, that you certainly react with ATF, my question is this is the power steering system more complicated, having more pressure, higher operating temperature, or more horsepower transfer than an automatic transmission, that would require more delicate seals, why design another seal for an less complex system? Is it logical for Honda to use its expensive PS fluid over million times in their car production, whereas they can use a ordinary fluid ATF, that would lessen their production cost. Most car manufacturer does not inhibit us from using ATF in their PS.

Our point of argument is about honda insisting on us car users to use a product that is so expensive, while other car manufactures doens't require us. I have no quarrel in you, what i was arguing is about the honda policy, which was not made by honda engineers but by the corporate management.

If money for you is not an issue, then why not obey them, but for me its another story.

**oj88** · February 20th, 2010 10:20 AM

Like I mentioned, it's not at all expensive if you look at the quantity of PSF involved. You would've just consumed two bottles of PSF in a span of 4 years. Spread the cost of the two bottles in 4 years comes out to about P0.58 a day.

Anyway, I now understand where you're coming from. But it's not just Honda that is recommending their own fluids. A lot of European cars as well won't take in universal fluids without any short or long term effects. I'd like to think that Honda et al. just did their homework and designed their PS and PSF (in collaboration of course) to perform better and last longer than the competition.

Case in point, we had a 92 Sentra ECCS that leaked fluid after about 4 years into service. The last thing we did was pour in a supposedly "compatible" ATF as PSF fluid. On the other hand, we also had a 98 Civic that was borderline maltreated. In the 8 years it was with us, it only received one Honda PSF change but when we sold it, the PS still works like new and there's absolutely no leaks.

But yes, I also wish there's a "true Honda-compatible PSF". Not because of the price. More for as alternative in case the OEM fluid isn't readily available.

**avid** · February 20th, 2010 04:12 PM

If you use ATF available in gas stations your power steering pump will emit sound when you turn you steer end to end. I use STP fluid (P100 per small container) thats clear in color and its ok.

Another cause of the noise is when you replace the hydraulic hose and fitting with a replacement one. The original cost 10t while replacement is 2,500 so best thing is get the original fittings and have it crimped with a hyrdraulic hose same diameter size as the original.

**paulgozon** · February 21st, 2010 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by oj88

Like I mentioned, it's not at all expensive if you look at the quantity of PSF involved. You would've just consumed two bottles of PSF in a span of 4 years. Spread the cost of the two bottles in 4 years comes out to about P0.58 a day.

Anyway, I now understand where you're coming from. But it's not just Honda that is recommending their own fluids. A lot of European cars as well won't take in universal fluids without any short or long term effects. I'd like to think that Honda et al. just did their homework and designed their PS and PSF (in collaboration of course) to perform better and last longer than the competition.

Case in point, we had a 92 Sentra ECCS that leaked fluid after about 4 years into service. The last thing we did was pour in a supposedly "compatible" ATF as PSF fluid. On the other hand, we also had a 98 Civic that was borderline maltreated. In the 8 years it was with us, it only received one Honda PSF change but when we sold it, the PS still works like new and there's absolutely no leaks.

But yes, I also wish there's a "true Honda-compatible PSF". Not because of the price. More for as alternative in case the OEM fluid isn't readily available.

From a honda user point of view that is cheap, from a Toyota point of view that is expensive (because there are good quality alternatives), from a Car Manufacturer (assuming the cost of their special Honda ATF is really that expensive) that's an expensive manufacturing cost plus the special seals they would put into their ps.

They collaborated their PSF with the manufacturer not because the designed ask for it, but for them to be on the safe side as well as for more profit. Imagine yourself, suddenly discover that you just have to put a power steering fluid in your honda, and started to look for a Genuine HONDA PSF, go and ask the nearby Auto Supply or Gasoline Station if they have one. Imagine yourself living in the province. Hirap maghanap niyang, at pag naglagay ka ng iba, whew, they already have a reason for voiding the warranty.

That's is only two car example, in my situation, have seen failures in every brand of car, some are premature, while others are wear and tear, some are less wear and tear but aged.

**xenos54** · February 22nd, 2010 06:08 PM

teka po, magkano po ba ang PS Fluid sa Honda?

un pong sa Petron na ATF 100-200 lang ata eh..

ginamit ko po ang Petron ATF for my CITY '99 Exi eh..

so far wala pa naman po akong naexperience na problem pero mga 2-3 mo. palang un..

parang gusto ko na tuloy i pa drain at palitan ng honda PS Fluid kasi ayoko naman siya masira nuh..

pano po ito mga bossing?

**drayver** · February 23rd, 2010 06:02 PM

Don't ever use ATF on your honda PS. 3 weeks ago I had my crv changed oil at shell the guy told me we need to top-up the PS kasi medyo konti na I said OK, paki drain na lang and put a new one. I know ATF nilagay kasi nakita ko pa yung sobra nilagay sa likod ng car. after a few days meron ako naririnig na sound pag lumiliko ako ng todo and pag check ko sa hood ang daming PS fluid na tumalsik from the hose. Went to honda and told me that the hose was busted and need to be change and it cost me 12K+ for that hose

**xenos54** · February 27th, 2010 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by drayver

Don't ever use ATF on your honda PS. 3 weeks ago I had my crv changed oil at shell the guy told me we need to top-up the PS kasi medyo konti na I said OK, paki drain na lang and put a new one. I know ATF nilagay kasi nakita ko pa yung sobra nilagay sa likod ng car. after a few days meron ako naririnig na sound pag lumiliko ako ng todo and pag check ko sa hood ang daming PS fluid na tumalsik from the hose. Went to honda and told me that the hose was busted and need to be change and it cost me 12K+ for that hose

naku buti top up lang gnawa ko..
anyway im scheduled for service anytime now..
baka ipa drain ko na lang..
kasi second hand ko nabili ung car and 2yrs na siya sakin..
to be sure.. ill have the fluids replaced.. thanks boss drayver!!