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  1. Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    #31
    napunta na sa bunutan ng baril ang usapan ah.. nakow... nakalayo na yung aroganteng drayber....

  2. Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by foresterx View Post
    not trying to start an argument but i humbly disagree with you bro. i'm also a responsible gun owner, i used to think like that but not anymore because of two encounters that i needed to draw my gun.

    the first one was a couple of years ago when i was going to my girlfriend's(now wife) house, it was around 9pm nag cocommute palang ako non so i was walking near her house and passed by a couple of drunk guys nag iinuman sa kalsada ayon nag balak pag tripan ako. papalapit pa lang sila sa akin and from their approach i immediately knew they were up to no good, i was carrying IWB didn't point my gun at them but lifted my shirt and held the grip of my gun and told them to back off and they did. in that kind of situation by law i am already allowed to shoot them and protect my self especially some of them picked up their bottle to use it as a weapon lalo na naka inom sila kahit san corte di sila mananalo pag nag demanda sila. if i didn't have a gun i'm 100% sure i could've been seriously hurt or worse, i didn't shoot them because i don't want to kill anyone unless i really have to but if they didn't back off syempre di na ako mag dadalawang isip.

    the other story is another long story so i won't post it anymore. anyway from that situation i learned that there are times that you don't have to fire your gun to eliminate the threat, and that my gun can become a tool to prevent situations like that to escalate any further.

    btw i agree with you that frozenice was wrong for proviking the other guy.
    sir by law you are still not allowed to shoot them.... kahit na may hawak pa sila ng bote... by law hangang hindi hinahampas sayo yun bote, sorry to say it is still not considered self defense... because your life at that time is not yet in imminent danger.... pwede ka pang tumakbo... pag na corner ka na no where to run at sinabihan mo sila na wag lalapit then lumapit pa din sila despite your clear warnings... then you can shoot them only to disable them... one shot to the lower part of the body would do it.... but a shot to the head... mahihirapan ka nang ijustify yan... kasi and ginawa mo is to kill na not to disable...

  3. Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by glenn manikis View Post
    sir by law you are still not allowed to shoot them.... kahit na may hawak pa sila ng bote... by law hangang hindi hinahampas sayo yun bote, sorry to say it is still not considered self defense... because your life at that time is not yet in imminent danger.... pwede ka pang tumakbo... pag na corner ka na no where to run at sinabihan mo sila na wag lalapit then lumapit pa din sila despite your clear warnings... then you can shoot them only to disable them... one shot to the lower part of the body would do it.... but a shot to the head... mahihirapan ka nang ijustify yan... kasi and ginawa mo is to kill na not to disable...
    Case to case basis talaga yan. Real life situations are different kaya its better to have a cool head.
    Fasten your seatbelt! Or else... Driven To Thrill!

  4. Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    644
    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ry_Tower View Post
    Case to case basis talaga yan. Real life situations are different kaya its better to have a cool head.
    Tama ka diyan sir ang pikon talo hehehe, pag sa ganyan bagay we should control our pride

    for example, kapag nakipag gitgitan ka tapos natalo ka niya tangapin na lang kase ibig sabihin mas magaling siya sayo magdrive

  5. Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    3,823
    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by glenn manikis View Post
    sir by law you are still not allowed to shoot them.... kahit na may hawak pa sila ng bote... by law hangang hindi hinahampas sayo yun bote, sorry to say it is still not considered self defense... because your life at that time is not yet in imminent danger.... pwede ka pang tumakbo... pag na corner ka na no where to run at sinabihan mo sila na wag lalapit then lumapit pa din sila despite your clear warnings... then you can shoot them only to disable them... one shot to the lower part of the body would do it.... but a shot to the head... mahihirapan ka nang ijustify yan... kasi and ginawa mo is to kill na not to disable...
    i agree and disagree with you bro, usually anti gun groups will say that but pro gun groups will say other wise. but no, there are loop holes in a lot of our laws. by law a firearm owner is only allowed to use his/her firearm if we encounter imminent danger in our life. now that doesn't mean that we are allowed to shoot to kill the threat but it doesn't say that we can't shoot to kill either. in our law it says that we can shoot to eliminate the threat in our life, see how unclear that is.

    now regarding when to draw and shoot, as long as a culprit is already attacking you no matter how far they are from you, you may engage the attacker. you can draw and let the culprit know you have a firearm and tell him to stop, if the culprit keeps going then shoot. you don't have to be cornered and wait for him to stab you before you shoot that's just plain stupid. but yes as much as possible if you can get away from that kind of situation it's a lot better than shooting someone. also in a situation like that our mind panics, we can't think clearly and our body doesn't move that easily so for me you're already cornered if your body and mind isn't functioning properly.

    there are thousands of situations where an attacker kept attacking even though they've been shot multiple times already, so i will keep shooting until the person is down on the ground and can't move anymore. i don't care if kill him or not as long as i'm sure that i have eliminated the threat in my life and my life is safe.

    Here's what i would do if i can.
    1) Active "Threat" Identified
    2) Create distance to "Threat" while shouting verbal commands to STOP.
    3) Check for possible collateral damage (Persons/Object besides and behind "Threat") while getting behind object(s) that provide ballistic cover if any.
    4) Engage "Threat" with 2 rounds to COM (center of mass) area and 1 round to the neck/head.
    5) Assess "Threat" and do a quick scan your 360 for any additional "Threat".
    6) If "Threat" is still Active then Repeat Number 4, 5 and 6.

    so for me shoot now do the talking later. it's a lot better to be alive and unhurt facing the judge for my trial than to be in the hospital fighting for your life or dead. my top priority is to defend and preserve my life, i'll let my lawyer do all the talking that's why i have a lawyer.

  6. Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    4,600
    #36
    no matter how we put it... we are all part of this beautiful mess called ANARCHY.

  7. Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ry_Tower View Post
    Case to case basis talaga yan. Real life situations are different kaya its better to have a cool head.
    better be a living coward than a dead hero.

  8. Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    1,587
    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by john5 View Post
    May rider pa na nagpapagas pero tinapat nya ang fx kahit di pa tapos transaction ng kawawang rider(parang get out of my way!)so yung rider tiningnan na lang sya ng masama at umabante,then ako naman nakinig na ng mp3 sa iphone ko pampalipas inip sa dameng segway pagdating sa IPI i saw him na may sinasabi pala sa akin masama ang tingin "umurong ka naman!kanina pa ako hirap na hirap mag kambyo!" syempre arogante pagkakasabi niya at medyo badtripna din ako sabi ko "bakit sino bang malaki sa atin?" malapad din built ko kase i lift weights pero obviously he's bigger than me! Nagalit sya sabi namimilosopo ka pa! Sabi ko alam mo na palang masikip bakit nag pasakay ka pa sa unahan eh dame bakante sa likod, ang sagot nya "para kang nakaupo sa sofa" eh halos di na din nga ako makagalaw sa sikip pagdating sa rosario bigla nya ako inabutan ng bente baba na lang daw ako! Sabi ko baba talaga ako dahil sobra sikip daldal pa ng daldal so sabi ko baba ka,bumaba sya at he was provoking me to hit him, binaba ko ang bag ko to have proper stances pero inaantay ko lang sya mauna since i am a martial artist and self defense instructor and i mean no harm unless provoked takot din naman pala sabay layo at pasok sa fx nya making a bad sign sa akin and lots of trash talks so sa inis ko na lang, i banged his glass a little bit. Ang akin lang sana wag nya ibaling sa ibang tao init ulo nya sabi ko na lang sa kanya kaya pala nakukuha lisensya mo napaka angas mo!
    The best is file a complaint sa LTFRB. That's why all PUVS (taxis/jeeps) have signs at their trunk to report to LTFRB for complaints! If proven guilty, suspended franchise nila. Problem lang is hectic at weekdays lang ang court hearing so sagabal sa schedule. But at least you give justice to everyone.

  9. Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,513
    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by foresterx View Post
    i agree and disagree with you bro, usually anti gun groups will say that but pro gun groups will say other wise. but no, there are loop holes in a lot of our laws. by law a firearm owner is only allowed to use his/her firearm if we encounter imminent danger in our life. now that doesn't mean that we are allowed to shoot to kill the threat but it doesn't say that we can't shoot to kill either. in our law it says that we can shoot to eliminate the threat in our life, see how unclear that is.

    now regarding when to draw and shoot, as long as a culprit is already attacking you no matter how far they are from you, you may engage the attacker. you can draw and let the culprit know you have a firearm and tell him to stop, if the culprit keeps going then shoot. you don't have to be cornered and wait for him to stab you before you shoot that's just plain stupid. but yes as much as possible if you can get away from that kind of situation it's a lot better than shooting someone. also in a situation like that our mind panics, we can't think clearly and our body doesn't move that easily so for me you're already cornered if your body and mind isn't functioning properly.

    there are thousands of situations where an attacker kept attacking even though they've been shot multiple times already, so i will keep shooting until the person is down on the ground and can't move anymore. i don't care if kill him or not as long as i'm sure that i have eliminated the threat in my life and my life is safe.

    Here's what i would do if i can.
    1) Active "Threat" Identified
    2) Create distance to "Threat" while shouting verbal commands to STOP.
    3) Check for possible collateral damage (Persons/Object besides and behind "Threat") while getting behind object(s) that provide ballistic cover if any.
    4) Engage "Threat" with 2 rounds to COM (center of mass) area and 1 round to the neck/head.
    5) Assess "Threat" and do a quick scan your 360 for any additional "Threat".
    6) If "Threat" is still Active then Repeat Number 4, 5 and 6.

    so for me shoot now do the talking later. it's a lot better to be alive and unhurt facing the judge for my trial than to be in the hospital fighting for your life or dead. my top priority is to defend and preserve my life, i'll let my lawyer do all the talking that's why i have a lawyer.
    sir if you do no. 2... by law its right...

    no. 3... that is not to disable that is already to kill... a shot to the neck and head will kill him... sir may hawak lang na bote yung mga lasing sa leeg at ulo mo na agad puputukan? if you can shoot the neck and head why not try shooting the bottle first or make a warning shot... or worst shoot his legs and feet..... may baril ka... sya may bote na hawak (at most probably mga lasing NA LASING pa) and your life is in danger? or is it the other way around? AND then you have a lawyer that will do all the talking... your lawyer will tell you all you want to hear... but in the end DECISION pa din ng Judge ang masusunod...

    It is basic that for self-defense to prosper, the following requisites must concur: (1) there must be unlawful aggression by the victim; (2) that the means employed to prevent or repel such aggression were reasonable; and (3) that there was lack of sufficient provocation on the part of the person defending himself.

    2. Reasonable necessity of the means employed:

    Whether the means employed is reasonable or not, will depend upon the kind of weapon of the aggressor, his physical condition, character, size, and other circumstances as well as those of the person attacked and the time and place of the attack.


    Mahirap po pala malasing at mapaaway sa isang responsible gun owner kung ganun....

    sabi mo kasi stop... the "drunk" or lasing most probably po hindi ka naintindihan at lasing nga.... sa leeg at ulo mo kaagad puputukan?

    dati sir napaaway na din ako sa lasing... binigyan ko ng push like jab in the face... bagsak agad... tumakbo ako then hinabol ako nung 3 kasama na mga lasing din... may mga hawak na bote... lahat po sila nadapa sa kalasingan... he.he... grabe tawa ko nung... balikan ko pa nga sana mga humabol... pero wag na problema at kaso lang yan....
    Last edited by glenn manikis; March 11th, 2012 at 07:39 AM.

  10. Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    3,823
    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by glenn manikis View Post
    sir if you do no. 2... by law its right...

    no. 3... that is not to disable that is already to kill... a shot to the neck and head will kill him... sir may hawak lang na bote yung mga lasing sa leeg at ulo mo na agad puputukan? if you can shoot the neck and head why not try shooting the bottle first or make a warning shot... or worst shoot his legs and feet..... may baril ka... sya may bote na hawak (at most probably mga lasing NA LASING pa) and your life is in danger? or is it the other way around? AND then you have a lawyer that will do all the talking... your lawyer will tell you all you want to hear... but in the end DECISION pa din ng Judge ang masusunod...

    have you ever shot a gun? do you really think it's that easy to shoot the target that you want with all that adrenaline rushing in your body? shoot the bottle or leg? good luck trying to do that in real life situation. buti sana kung si jason bourne ako kayang kaya yon.:bwahaha: that's why always aim for the body since that will be your biggest target on a person.

    warning shot is illegal because it can hit innocent by standers.

    a distance of 5-10meters can be closed in under 3 seconds or less, if you still haven't drawn your gun there's a big chance that your attacker can stab you before you can even draw your gun.

    anything hard can be used as a weapon. even a pencil can be deadly if used properly.

    have you ever seen a bad guy stopped with just one bullet that didn't hit a vital part of the body? with a rifle it can happen but sometimes it doesn't. with a pistol no way it can happen.

    a lawyers job is to justify your actions and convince the judge and jury that you are not guilty. a person who tells you what you want to hear is a sales person not a lawyer. if you think your lawyer is only telling you what you want to hear then i suggest get a good reputable lawyer.


    It is basic that for self-defense to prosper, the following requisites must concur: (1) there must be unlawful aggression by the victim; (2) that the means employed to prevent or repel such aggression were reasonable; and (3) that there was lack of sufficient provocation on the part of the person defending himself.

    2. Reasonable necessity of the means employed:

    Whether the means employed is reasonable or not, will depend upon the kind of weapon of the aggressor, his physical condition, character, size, and other circumstances as well as those of the person attacked and the time and place of the attack.


    Mahirap po pala malasing at mapaaway sa isang responsible gun owner kung ganun....

    mahirap malasing at mapaaway di lang sa may baril. sa lahat ng tao mahirap mapaaway pag lasing ka dahil you won't be able to defend yourself in the fight and in court. pag laseng or naka inom ka at na patay mo kaaway mo kahit self defense pa mahihirapan ka convince ang judge and jury that it was selfdefense.

    sabi mo kasi stop... the "drunk" or lasing most probably po hindi ka naintindihan at lasing nga.... sa leeg at ulo mo kaagad puputukan?

    if he keeps attacking after i said stop yes i would shoot him, but i would target center mass like i said previously.

    dati sir napaaway na din ako sa lasing... binigyan ko ng push like jab in the face... bagsak agad... tumakbo ako then hinabol ako nung 3 kasama na mga lasing din... may mga hawak na bote... lahat po sila nadapa sa kalasingan... he.he... grabe tawa ko nung... balikan ko pa nga sana mga humabol... pero wag na problema at kaso lang yan....

    not every situation is the same and not everyone can out run a couple of guys, and there are times that there is no where else to run.

    in a fair fight(1on1, same size, no weapons) i could defend myself against an ordinary guy since i'm pretty well built and studied muay thai. but not everyone can fight and especially against a couple of guys by himself.

    btw even if your attackers aren't holding any pointy object or a solid object they could swing at your, if you're fighting more than 1 guy then you can use your gun wheter to scare them away or shoot them. if you're attacking someone your fist alone is already a weapon and can kill another person.
    i have an uncle that weighs 270lbs and diabetic, should he wait for his attackers to hit him or stab him or corner him before he fights back? even if it's just a fist fight you really think a person with that condition can defend himself?

    i have a friend who just had his brain tumor removed and one hit to the head can do serious damage or even kill him, he can't fight a fist fight since his surgery weakened him pretty badly and like i said one punch to the head can be fatal, should he still fight in a fist fight?

    i'm not saying i will shoot to kill, but i will shoot until my attacker is down and can't move anymore. if he dies i wouldn't care as long as i'm unhurt and alive. in a life and death situation i doubt anyone would worry about the law because i'm sure all you'll be able to think about is to survive no matter what.

    there are situations you can't avoid, if someone attacks me i will do anything and everything to protect my life because i value it. no law can prevent me from protecting my life and tell me what and what not to do in a life and death situation.

    this will be my last reply to your post since this is not the place to discuss this. if you want to continue this post in the gun thread that we have on this forum.

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