Pinoy Utility Vehicle Bibili ba kau?

[weremanok]

Son, you should be passionate on everything you do...especially if you think you are saving other people's lives......

Now, if you are a good christian, you should give a second chance to those people who committed a mistake....

If you love your country, encourage your countrymen to work hard, rectify their mistakes and improve their craft...instead of insulting them and condemning their labor outright.....

We are in the same boat....any insulting comments on a noble cause...is like putting a hole on our boat...the moment the Philippine boat sinks....we all sink.......and die...

kaya nga po sabi ko ay "sobra" ang passion. if you yourself made personal attacks against someone, then you're just the same as the one you're accusing of making personal attacks di po ba? gusto ko naman po magsucceed ang mvpmap phuv pero kung pangit talaga, wala tayong magagawa. tsaka ano po kinalaman ng pagiging good christian? nde naman po nagkasala yung mvpmap. pangit lang talaga yung nilabas nilang prototype at nde naman kasalanan yun.

[jpdm]

Oh geebus, wait a minute. What's this eco friendly jiggery-pokery you're mentioning JPDM?

How can a 2.0 liter diesel engine outputting only 48hp be eco friendly? Do the math, the power to displacement, weight, compression, exhaust, etc. etc. seems to be incongruent to your assumptions.

A particle filter wouldn't hurt too. But what are we asking for in a P450,000 car subsidized by our taxes again?

WOW, THOSE ARE HYPOTHETICAL TECHNICAL MAMBO-JUMBO, JIGGERY-POKERY, EVO-V....

ANYWAY, I'M IMPRESS WITH YOU TECHNICAL SAVVY BUT YOUR LINE OF ARGUMENT IS FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG, WHY?

I am not arguing with the the technical details of PHUV. Perhaps ikaw ang engineer dito.ako hindi.ordinaryong commuter lang ako. paano ako sasagot sa mga hypothetical jiggery-pokery technicalities mo....

Ang pinaglalaban ko dito ay ang merits ng PHUV Project. Gets mo... P-R-O-J-E-C-T HINDI P-R-O-T-O-T-Y-P-E. Basahin mo posts ko.

Binanatan nyo na naman patriotism ko. Anyway, Im proud to be a RATIONAL nationalist and patriot.

ARE WE AGAIN TALKING ABOUT THE DEMENTED PHUV PROTOTYPE NO.1?hAVE YOU READ THE MVPMAP RESPONSE? THEY HAVE READ THE COMMENTS OF THE TSIKOTEERS, PERHAPS YOUR COMMENTS TOO. AND THEY said, they ARE TOO WILLING TO INCORPORATE ALL, DEFINITELY INCLUDING YOUR SUGGESTIONS. PROTOTYPE NO.2 IS IN THE WORKS.

Ang problema, fixated kayo sa flaws ng prototype no.1. Hindi nyo tinitingnan ang rationale behind the whole PHUV project..

wait a minute, subsidized by our taxes again? READ the articles OR official press release on the PHUV Project first.

I hope EVO-V you should not take my passionate defense of the PHUV project as some sort of a personal attack against those you are not in favor of it. I just want it to make it through--our last valiant stand against the onslaught of globalization and terrible apathy of the government and the Filipinos themselves about massacre of our local industries.

Tit-for-tat, you insult, I retaliate.

Tayo din magiging casualty pag bumagsak ang industry na marami ang nagde-depende. Hindi habang panahon, magpapadala tayo ng OFW(walang available na trbaho sa mga designers and engineers na tulad mo EVO. Kasi ang mga auto shows sa pinas,are not about the prowess of our auto designers and engineers like you. Auto shows dito pinas, pageant din kasama mga beauticians, fashion designers ng kotse.), uutang dahil sa Budget and Trade deficits (puro imports and no taxes...wala ng nakatayong industriya. saan kukuha ng tax. mga foreign companies may mga tax perks yan o tax holidays.)

Tapos pag nawalan ng trabako ang libong tao mula sa MVPMAP at auto industry, may tutulong ba sa inyo? Ngayon pag wala, dadami na naman magugutom..dahil walang makuhang trabaho....mangho-holdap, mag-akyat bahay, kidnap for ransom, carjack at carnapping etc. Sinong naperwisyo ang ini-indorsosong produkto ng Hapon---o ang Japan? na di na malaman ng Japan kung saan dadalhin ang $900 billion international reserves nila?--tayo ba may ganyang pera? Di ba tayo. SUSginoo...

Basahin mo na lang posts ng MVPMAP at ang mga posts ko. Tigilan nyo na yung prototype one. Panigurado, na chop-chop na yun at binalik na yung engine na binabanggit mo sa Dreamco.

Intayin nalang natin yung prototype two.

[nicolodeon]

[SIZE="3"]"Tit-for-tat, you/I insult, I/you retaliate"[/SIZE]

And this activity/behavior accomplishes what, exactly?

---------

We mods view/see your discussions here as passionate with most of you posters sticking to your opinions. In general, an opinion is a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty. Unless validated by an recognized authority on the matters, any opinion - no matter how a person passionately defends it - would still be a personal belief, that should be respected by others since all people are entitled to their own opinion.

One might argue that the opinions stated on this thread are treated as such - a opinion - and that these are being "respected" because, like the old saying goes, everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion. However, given the number of insults thrown on this thread by participants, it seems that most of us here are being carried away by our own opinions and closing our minds to the merits of each others arguments.

The makers of the 1st PHUV have distinctly stated that all of your views, opinions, suggestions and criticisms - no matter how harsh they were - are being taken constructively so we hope that this settles things on this thread.

For the sake of the PHUV effort, this thread has remained open. However, if you posters continue to insult each other and escalate this thread into a fight of words thread whereby things get out of hand, then the admins or mods won't hesitate to close this thread and to give infractions - even bans - to anybody who goes overboard.

Please consider you fellows as warned.

[ozcity]

hindi ako bibili kahit prototype 10 na yan..

[acidboy]

I hope EVO-V you should not take my passionate defense of the PHUV project as some sort of a personal attack against those you are not in favor of it. I just want it to make it through--our last valiant stand against the onslaught of globalization and terrible apathy of the government and the Filipinos themselves about massacre of our local industries.

I really disagree with people who bring out the "evil globalization" card in their arguments. If done right, globalization will save this country if nothing else. This kind of argument is one of the reason we are not Thailand, economically speaking. When big auto firms were scouting around SEAsia for their expansion, the Thais were welcoming them with their investments and technologies while the Philippines was still dillydallying and listening to left-leaning a-holes who preached that Multinationals were evil.

10+ years later saan na ang Pilipinas, and for that matter the local auto industry? Trying to crawl its way out of its own grave, while Thailand who slept with the evil globalizing giants is called the "Detroit of South East Asia" - not my words, but that of people in the industry. While this country is trying to keep the industry alive DAW with an all-Filipino vehicle, Thailand is producing and more importantly exporting almost all of the Toyotas and Hondas in the region.

Now the Philippines is trying to play catch-up in their own way. Motorcyle assembly is a key factor here. Go to Batangas and look for that giant assembly plant for scooters to see what I'm talking about. The target for that plant is 1,000,000 scooters annually- and for export bulk nyan. Yan ang magbibigay ng trabaho sa tao.

Sorry for the OT.

[ogpro]

BTW I have 7 cars in my garage. 3 SUVs , 1 sports car, 1 van, 1 sedan, 1 microcar and the PHUV will be my 8th verhicle. I also have no relationship with MVMAP and the PHUV whatsoever. Dito ko lang narinig sa Forum iyan.

For the benefit of Mr. Hein who called me a fool because I wanted to buy a PHUV, I don't mind buying the PHUV even if it is a lemon, because I can afford to buy a vehicle every month .

wow mon, if you were that loaded, I'd suggest that you're better off saving your money and investing directly in the phuv project (like actually pay for an engineer to help them). It'll go a lot further than buying a less than mediocre phuv and showing it off to friends who would most likely be turned off by it.

[EVO-V]

A fool and his money are easily parted. Its your prerogative to waste your money.

Being able to buy a new vehicle every month doesn't mean you would exercise it with little discretion. If you could buy a new vehicle every month, why don't you?

If you want to be competitive and you're new in the market, you will need to come up with a disruptive product. Not one that is obviously inferior.

Why would the PHUV parts manufacturers lose their jobs? They still make parts for other vehicles. Sobrang drama ka naman.

The PHUV is not even an efficient mass transport vehicle. The bus was invented for that.

The MVPMAP was asking the government for tax exemptions, hence there is a loss in terms of non-collection of taxes. Who do you think pays for any shortfall or deficit in tax collections?

Saying that an argument is fundamentally flawed and not arguing why is a declaration and has little probative value.

I pointed out several key technical points about it being underpowered, now JPDM decides to be maka-masa in an attempt to avoid an issue that is damaging not only to the project but to the environment as well.

Ano nga ba talaga?

A prototype intended for debut is supposed to showcase the best you can do, not what you think is good enough.

Supposing you don't have any grasp of product development, manufacturing, marketing, and support is the reason why the only way this product would succeed is if there are enough people agree that this is actually good enough.

This is getting useless really fast. No way to win, its like booing in the special olympics.

[monmendoza]

Please consider you fellows as warned[/b].

Ayan ha, warning na iyan coming from the super moderator. Sabi ko nga dapat polite tayo even if we disagree.

Anyway some of us members of tsikot are curious where JPDM, Hein, EVO-V, and Ekimonk are coming from. Napausapan namin, baka naman may vested interest kayo, kaya napaka passionate ang inyong mga posting at talagang nakakasakit damdamin. O baka kaya naman ang tatapang lang ninyo kasi nagtatago kayo sa mga psuedonyms ninyo pero di niyo kayang panindigan ang mga sinasabi niyo sa tutoong mundo. i.e. sa Virtual World lang kayo magaling.

So ang challenge namin:
Please post your real names and your company's email addresses or telephone numbers, we will contact the email or the telephone numbers of your company to check kung tutoo nga kayo or nagtatago lang sa virtual world. Kaya niyo bang paninidigan ang mga sinasabi niyo sa tutoong mundo?
A challenge coming from:
mon mendoza and 5 active tsikoteers and maybe a lot of other members of the audience

[kuyabanoy]

hindi pa rin ako bibili

[ogpro]

Ayan ha, warning na iyan coming from the super moderator. Sabi ko nga dapat polite tayo even if we disagree.

Anyway some of us members of tsikot are curious where JPDM, Hein, EVO-V, and Ekimonk are coming from. Napausapan namin, baka naman may vested interest kayo, kaya napaka passionate ang inyong mga posting at talagang nakakasakit damdamin. O baka kaya naman ang tatapang lang ninyo kasi nagtatago kayo sa mga psuedonyms ninyo pero di niyo kayang panindigan ang mga sinasabi niyo sa tutoong mundo. i.e. sa Virtual World lang kayo magaling.

So ang challenge namin:
Please post your real names and your company's email addresses or telephone numbers, we will contact the email or the telephone numbers of your company to check kung tutoo nga kayo or nagtatago lang sa virtual world. Kaya niyo bang paninidigan ang mga sinasabi niyo sa tutoong mundo?
A challenge coming from:
mon mendoza and 5 active tsikoteers and maybe a lot of other members of the audience

Mon,

Is it possible that all of those you mentioned are just passionate about how they feel? Even JPDM and I had our misunderstandings, but over PM we realized that we just both had our own ideas we wanted to express. It takes a certain amount of maturity to accept that and leave it as it is. This is after all, an open forum (well kinda hehe).

Evo, hein, and the others have valid points. You all seem to not notice that NOBODY has addressed those points with any arguments that can stand on its own two feet. JPDM also has his points, and the funny thing about their salvos is that they all seem to go over the other's head. Two very different points that need two very different approaches.

This obviously has become a debate thread on the merits and mistakes in the mvpmap phuv. The mods have set the rules, debate without personal attacks and keep it polite. I guess if you can't hang with that, then don't even bother posting. I'm sure the enlightened readers can make up their own minds about who is making a better case.

As for identifying themselves, why not identify yourselves too?