Compact cars unsafe?

[empy]

i think we need to go back to one of the central assumptions of the article and tests: all else being equal.

an idiot behind the wheel is an idiot no matter what he drives. if more idiots drive SUV's and skew the accident stats, you have to take that out of the equation.

ditto driver skills. it makes me laugh when someone says "small cars are more maneuverable and can avoid accidents". Lexus even had a campaign for this. the average driver is too unskilled or too distracted to avoid accidents even if his car handled like a Caterham. take that out of the equation.

with all those variables out of the equation, then the cold hard facts will be reflected in the crash tests. and compact cars simply don't fare as well. as mbeige said, laws of physics.


now - put all the other variables back in. say you're a safe, mature, skilled defensive driver. your safety factor will be sky high no matter what car we put you in.

i like to think i am a safe driver. but since i would like to reduce my death/injury risk from small to really, really small, i buy the safest cars anyway, and i make sure all occupants are properly restrained. one of the main factors in me buying BMW and VW are the excellent safety and crash ratings of those models. i will do most of the work in avoiding accidents every day, but when i fail, i expect my car to take over the work in protecting my family and i.

Volkswagens, in general, he says, "tend to be safe, but they are heavier and get lower fuel economy. If you improve safety, you make a vehicle heavier, at least with today's technology."

Jetta, a compact, weighs more than 3,200 pounds, the same as a midsize car and about 500 pounds more than a typical compact. The weight of its safety hardware and extra-robust structure drags Jetta's mileage per gallon into the mid-20s in combined city-highway driving, same as a midsize car and about 5 mpg less than a typical compact. And Jetta's starting price of $17,000 is about $2,000 more than other popular compacts.

exactly. i personally would pay $2000 more if it improved my/my family's survivability, even in a small way.

[scharnhorst]

wait lang, i'm getting a bit confused... when we say "compact", we are talking about corolla/civic-sized cars, right?

smaller. think getz, alto, etc...

mas buo pa yung smartcar kesa dun sa F150 crashtest na nakita ko

[niky]

Nope. Compact refers to Corolla-class vehicles.

Weird, huh? Here, cars like the Corolla, Civic and Focus, at 1100 - 1300 kgs, aren't at a huge safety disadvantage versus Japanese box vans, Asian Utility Vehicles and Jeepneys, which often weigh just 1600-1900 kgs.

In the US, they're considered dangerously small as compared to 2 - 4 ton SUVs roaming the streets.

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*mbeige: well played. I really can't dispute the car versus car scenario. Physics... the car with more momentum will transmit momentum to the other car in a crash... and the car with more momentum is usually the bigger one. One note on offset crashes though... they're actually better, as the force is not transmitted directly to the vehicle. The decelerative force transferred to the vehicle is redirected laterally, and the vehicle doesn't absorb so much of the impact. But yeah, if the car isn't well made, that impact can still cause more deformation by causing twice the load on the side crash structure.

I still don't agree on buying a heavier car just in case it has more crumple zone/crash structure... you still have to consider how well it is made (as in the case of domestic SUVs)... but I'll have concede the all else being equal points...

Caught me on Diana, too.

RE: relaxation and driving safety... good point... as long as the driver is not too relaxed... just calm.

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*Dr. Kamiya: if only CF weren't so labor-intensive to make... *sigh*, maybe someday someone will figure out how to make cheap CF weave... maybe a bamboo weave mixed with a strong, non-toxic epoxy would be of similar strenght? ;)

[mbeige]

*mbeige: well played. I really can't dispute the car versus car scenario. Physics... the car with more momentum will transmit momentum to the other car in a crash... and the car with more momentum is usually the bigger one. One note on offset crashes though... they're actually better, as the force is not transmitted directly to the vehicle. The decelerative force transferred to the vehicle is redirected laterally, and the vehicle doesn't absorb so much of the impact. But yeah, if the car isn't well made, that impact can still cause more deformation by causing twice the load on the side crash structure.

I still don't agree on buying a heavier car just in case it has more crumple zone/crash structure... you still have to consider how well it is made (as in the case of domestic SUVs)... but I'll have concede the all else being equal points...

Caught me on Diana, too.

RE: relaxation and driving safety... good point... as long as the driver is not too relaxed... just calm.

RE: Offset crashes: I think you mean side impact crashes that throw the cars into circles right after impact. The head on but 40% offset crashes actually put twice as much energy on one of the frontal crash "forks" and that's what makes it so deadly and puts so much strain on the crash structures designed on the cars.

But I know what you mean with not 100% of the force is transmitted on the other moving body. That's actually why some people say they prefer not to wear seatbelts because they'd rather be thrown out of the vehicle and land "safely" kuno. Of course we all know this is a fluke and they'd probably die from hitting the ground or worse, being run over by other vehicles.

Personally though I'd rather have the cars collide and hit each other so both cars will deform as planned, rather than throw them elsewhere out of control. But we can't always control things.

Hey I'm not trying to bat against you, just pointing out the objective views. I've had my fair share of crash test experiments Remember those Lego models I used to make? I also crashed them and studied how they reacted. Needless to say they pretty much turned out to crumple similarly. Well ok this Fit did poorly but that's because this was the first design which I've since upgraded and finalized



But we're getting off topic now

By the way here's a good link about subcompact cars, and the corresponding compact cars.

[scharnhorst]

hahahaha * the lego crash test

Subcompacts pala yung mga binanggit ko.

then again, in the philippines, we have all these carelessly driven buses to compensate for the scarcity of big SUVs.

and if they're worried about compacts crashing into SUVs, here we've seen motorcycles go up against trucks and buses.

[niky]

*mbeige: no worries... this debate is just a thought experiment for me... as we're trying to analyze why compact cars are perceived as less safe, and how much of that is truth and how much is perception.

There's always three sides... yours, mine and the truth. The point of a debate is to see which one of us the truth agrees with. Sadly, for me, it looks like it's leaning towards yours... :lol:

Hey, it's not like we're debating Evolution or Iraq... :hysterical:

[pup2]

Maybe God made more agile small cars with good defensive drivers that way to avoid big accidents. So that if your car is neither small nor are you good or defensive, you should get a somewhat bigger one.

[mbeige]

*mbeige: no worries... this debate is just a thought experiment for me... as we're trying to analyze why compact cars are perceived as less safe, and how much of that is truth and how much is perception.

There's always three sides... yours, mine and the truth. The point of a debate is to see which one of us the truth agrees with. Sadly, for me, it looks like it's leaning towards yours... :lol:

Well, you had a very good point about different drivers and conditions, but I focused (pun intended) more on the physics

[hominid]

--delikado compact cars lalo dito sa Pinas. Ako nung naka daihatsu charade ako, kahit anong ingat ko sa pagmamaneho, 3 or 4 na beses na ako na-sideswipe ng mga bus at truck sa Cavite. nag-uunahan o nagmamadali lagi kasi yung mga pampasaherong bus. Tapos yung truck walang paki pag nakita kasalubong o katabi niya maliit na sasakyan. Bastusan talaga.

Agree ako d2. Ako nga, ginitgit dahil me kasalubong daw na motor un truck na omovertake sakin. Biro mo, sa motor natakot, sa Getz ko hindi. Langya...

Actually depende sa car kung safe cya o hindi, kaso hindi nirerespeto mga maliliit na sasakyan sa daan ng mga trucks and buses.

D2 sana natin medyo i-shift ang topic na ito.

Kung ang mga tricycle non-stop singit, ang mga trucks/buses, non-stop sugod. Gaya dati d2 nun fiesta. Me mga visitors na naka tourist bus. Pinag-gigitgit mga stall ng sidewalk vendors. Impossible naman na d nya kita sa side mirror un. Feeling ogag lang talaga.

Kung mga SUVs o PUJs, sa tingin ko ayus naman pakisama nila sakin. Madalas rin akong nahihintuan at tinatanong magkano daw sasakyan ko. OT na.

[herbolero]

--delikado compact cars lalo dito sa Pinas. Ako nung naka daihatsu charade ako, kahit anong ingat ko sa pagmamaneho, 3 or 4 na beses na ako na-sideswipe ng mga bus at truck sa Cavite. nag-uunahan o nagmamadali lagi kasi yung mga pampasaherong bus. Tapos yung truck walang paki pag nakita kasalubong o katabi niya maliit na sasakyan. Bastusan talaga.

dapat sa pinas pag naka-compact car ka, dapat itatakbo mo lang sa mga secondary road o city, municipal roads at wag highway o expressway. Kung di maiwasan, you should equip you compact car with a bazooka o anti-tank weapon. Di kana sasagiin

I currently have a Daihatsu Mira(NORKIS VERSION), actually it is my second unit. The first one was badly damaged, four days after i got it from the dealer, by a 16-wheeler driven by a sleepy driver. My car was dragged (with me inside) almost 20 meters before the driver could even realize that he hit something. The insurance people decided to replace it because repairing it would probably cost more. I have to admit that there is really a factor with size when you consider safety. I drive more carefully now, making sure that i let big trucks pass especially when cornering. Looking on the bright side, i came out of a close call without a scratch.