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March 28th, 2008 01:25 PM #21
Actually, regarding the 1.5 million peso Jazz, you don't need all that kit... What you really need to upgrade is the brakes and tires. The Jazz's stock suspension does okay for a car with 150 whp, IMHO... tein coil-overs are basically overkill for street use, since you will never have enough grip in street conditions to utilize them to the fullest extent. A set of standard performance shocks and springs, as well as good brake pads will do.
This will put your turbo-Jazz, including the cost of the vehicle as new and mods, at around just 1.1 million. What can you get for that price that will be faster? Nothing, really... a 1.1 million peso Focus might come close, but it'd take another 50k-100k in upgrades for a Focus to be that quick.
At the 1.5 million budget of the guy who did the Jazz upgrade... well, his satisfaction may or may not be the reason for the sale. Some guys get restless after finishing a project, and move on to the next one. For all he spent, he might as well have gotten a K20 set-up, which would have arguably given him more power without the transmission issues (a K20 can put over 200 whp down on the rollers... without clutch upgrades, a turboed L15 is at about 140-150 whp).
Whether a turbo upgrade is worth it or not depends really on the buyer. Do you want a car that is just a little bit faster? IHE + tuning... decent gain, none of the installation headaches of a turbo-kit, half the price of the cheapest non-surplus turbo kit, and no big issues.
Do you want a car that's comprehensively faster? Then you have to weigh the gain against the possiblity of trading/selling the car for a faster one. In the US, this is a very critical point, as you can buy faster (more expensive) cars there for not much more than what you get your typical grocery getter for. It's amusing to see that there, a tuned WRX can cost as much as an STi which is still comprehensively faster. Here, taxes mean that for the extra you spend for that STi, you could have a WRX with twice the power, a rollcage and r-compounds. That's quite a difference.
A mild kit isn't so bad. I have a friend who did a mild build for just 80k. Add maybe 10k for tuning, and then another 10k for a secondhand "Stage III" clutch (whatever Stage III means), and he's spent much less on his 200 whp car than I have on my naturally aspirated probably 140 whp (maybe 150 at Speedlab) car in total power mods. We're both happy though... he's got his power... I've got my exhaust note... :hysterical:
Your typical high-compression street car can take around 7-10 psi with careful tuning, and it'll produce 50-80% more power. It won't be an Evo killer, but it'll definitely be lots of fun.
Of course, skip the tuning part, and that fun is likely to last just a few weeks before you blow the head off.
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Oh, regarding the original question... power and fuel economy don't mix. Mild power mods will help increase economy, but that's because you're removing restrictions in your system that are increasing fuel consumption... but past the breakover point, you will only be using more fuel to make more power.
And a TRD supercharger kit costs $$$... but you might get lucky and find one secondhand.Last edited by niky; March 28th, 2008 at 01:31 PM.
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March 28th, 2008 01:35 PM #22
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March 28th, 2008 03:32 PM #24
Reprograming the ECU would provide some gains if you have some mods done to the engine. Otherwise, it might not be worth the money & time spent doing such work.
and replacing headers, tailpipe, muffler will help you save on gas mileage ba?
But a small engine with a factory turbo would give the same relative fuel consumption with a higher peak horsepower & torque rating. This is the comparison of the toyota 1.3L and toyota 1.3L turbo engines.
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March 28th, 2008 05:04 PM #25
You can get a reflash at Autotechnika for just 30k... including dyno time. Then 5k for each additional reflash.
You can also get Speedlab's Unichip, including installation and dyno, for the same amount.
Or... you could just get an air-fuel controller or a GReddy EManage secondhand for half-that amount, and use it to tune the engine to be more economical. The difference won't be huge, especially not on an already efficient engine like the ZZ, but it will be there.
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March 28th, 2008 06:20 PM #26At the 1.5 million budget of the guy who did the Jazz upgrade... well, his satisfaction may or may not be the reason for the sale. Some guys get restless after finishing a project, and move on to the next one. For all he spent, he might as well have gotten a K20 set-up, which would have arguably given him more power without the transmission issues (a K20 can put over 200 whp down on the rollers... without clutch upgrades, a turboed L15 is at about 140-150 whp).
I mentioned the GD-series City and Jazz as examples because turbos can double their effective WHP, regardless of what engine you start out with. It's all in the tuning
As for the TEINs being overkill...I see the point Basically kanya-kanyang hilig na yan but it'll be on the list for track addicts.
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March 28th, 2008 07:01 PM #27
Yeah... but for me, I don't see the necessity, unless you're competing for points.
One of the nicest turbo-jazzes I've ridden recently (Auto_Xer sometimes drags me along on road tests as an extra set of ears and an extra butt... to listen for weird sounds like boost leaks and feel for any suspension problems...) has had nothing but sports springs and nitro-filled shocks, a la Cruven (though I don't know if it was Cruven or Zee). I know, doesn't sound like a good combo, but would you know? It just plain worked. The car tracked well, cornered hard, and it was supple. And it's adjustable, too... there's a valve re-engineered into the shock so that the nitro-pressure can be raised or lowered. I'm planning to ask the owner about this, as I want to experiment on it.
I'm a track addict, but I only go as far as adjustable shocks... I would have gone for coil-overs, but I didn't see it as a necessity... I prefer to set-up my car to where it feels good and then just concentrate on my driving. I went adjustable only so that I could pick my preferred stiffness... if I'd known about the nitro-filling, I would have just done that instead.
Hehe... sorry for the O.T.
And yeah, a turbo jazz is something else... it's on my list as one of the best ways to spend money on an automobile...Last edited by niky; March 28th, 2008 at 07:07 PM.
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March 29th, 2008 10:25 AM #30Eh... mga bro maiba ako....
ung KHAOS ba nkakadagdag ng HP and nkakabawas ng consumption ng gas????
Kwento ng katrabaho ko, meron daw sya officemate dati na Italiano na tinanong daw bakit...
Traffic!