same engine displacement diff HP

[jtbjr]

hi sirs,

just curious, why is that a 2.5d4-d engine has much lesser HP
than a 2.5montero and almost the same power as 1.5hyundai crdi engine, in the same way, a 1.5vvti engine as the same HP as the 1.4 hyundai accent engine?
why is this like this? anybody knows the logic of these why toyota's engine are made to have less power compared to its competition? cost savings??effeciency?? thanks in advance

[kkreuk18]

It means mas genius ang ECU's ng hyundai compared sa toyota at mitsu.
Marami na kasi factors para maitaas ang power ng auto. ECU, Turbo, number ng camshafts.

[reym]

There are some factors like body weight, gear ratio and gear final ratio that you should consider.

[timo07]

One reason is the way the engines are tuned by the manufacturer, particular to the model being offered. Not necessarily because of technology but rather, practicality for the application.

It may be necessary to increase the output of an engine for use on utility vehicles (like pick-ups) by installing an intercooler, whereby you can increase the volume of cool air to be delivered to the engine, hence greater output. Stretching an engines power output may shorten it's useful life though. The D4D's turbocharging set-up is basic(without intercooler) while for the Mitsu is Intercooled.

The d4d's output of 100hp on the innova is just okay, if I may say so. The Montero on the other hand is a bit heavier as compared to the Innova so more power is ideal and so goes with the other brands.

And then another reason is in the Technology itself (Hyundai's). Developing theirs based on the more advanced European technology.

[voltscastillo]

technology and the components INSIDE the engines.

bakit kanyo?

ang civic SiR at ang regular civic ay may parehong 1.6 engine. tig apat din cylinders nila. pero anlayo ng power ng sir sa vti civic.

the secret is in the internal engine design... the sir has more cams, a better air intake, better computer. yung ibang kotse ganun din... minsan parehong engine nga pero magkaiba ang power (4d56 turbo and non turbo).

[Ry_Tower]

technology and the components INSIDE the engines.

bakit kanyo?

ang civic SiR at ang regular civic ay may parehong 1.6 engine. tig apat din cylinders nila. pero anlayo ng power ng sir sa vti civic.

the secret is in the internal engine design... the sir has more cams, a better air intake, better computer. yung ibang kotse ganun din... minsan parehong engine nga pero magkaiba ang power (4d56 turbo and non turbo).

TAMA! example lang din, I once saw sa TV yung explanation ng technician ng F1 mclaren team regarding sa piston ng merc cars and F1 cars nila. Malayo yung design ng head ng piston at sobrang nipis/gaan pero good for 2 weeks worth of racing nga lang whereas yung sa prodcution car ay designed naman for longevity. That is why for a specific purpose/car, may specific design din ng engine. Kung makakatipid ka, mas ok diba.

[niky]

It all depends on the requirements.

The Innova D4D doesn't make a lot of power, but it's cheap to build and economical (as good as the Isuzu 4JA1 or better, actually). A more powerful motor would drive the price of the Innova up without adding anything that the buyers need.

SUV buyers expect power, which is why the Fortuner gets the more powerful 3.0.

HARI also offers models with different engine trims. The base Grand Starex has a weaker non-CRDI 2.5, whereas the top-of-the-line model gets a 170 hp 2.5 CRDI.

[kkreuk18]

It all depends on the requirements.

The Innova D4D doesn't make a lot of power, but it's cheap to build and economical (as good as the Isuzu 4JA1 or better, actually). A more powerful motor would drive the price of the Innova up without adding anything that the buyers need.

SUV buyers expect power, which is why the Fortuner gets the more powerful 3.0.

HARI also offers models with different engine trims. The base Grand Starex has a weaker non-CRDI 2.5, whereas the top-of-the-line model gets a 170 hp 2.5 CRDI.

fortuner comes with the 2.5 crdi engines,just like the innova, on 4x2 models, 3liter engine on 4x4.
toyota 2kd engine as good as the isuzu 4ja1 engine or even better? when it comes to acceleration and top speed, yes, but durability? I highly doubt it. Wala pa napapatunayan sa diesel engine ang toyota, kahit nga un sister company nila na hino, sirain ang makina

[dagol]

Masyadong malaki ang generation gap ng Common rail at mechanical injection pump para paghambingin sila. Parang sugar ray robinson vs manny pacquiao.Dapat yung counterpart ng bawat isa ang paglabanin gaya halimbawa ng 2L vs 4d56 vs 4ja1.

[Ry_Tower]

fortuner comes with the 2.5 crdi engines,just like the innova, on 4x2 models, 3liter engine on 4x4.
toyota 2kd engine as good as the isuzu 4ja1 engine or even better? when it comes to acceleration and top speed, yes, but durability? I highly doubt it. Wala pa napapatunayan sa diesel engine ang toyota, kahit nga un sister company nila na hino, sirain ang makina

Hindi sirain diesel ng Toyota pre IMO. The 2Lt and 3Lt diesel non-crdi of their hilux is proof of that. Matibay yun, on par with MMC or Isuzu. Don't generalize agad.

Hanggang ngayon nga hilux pa preferred battle car sa Africa eh. Even Top Gear is impressed with its durability and performance. We have in our office a 2003 hilux 2L engine 2.4. 289K odo, no overhaul pa rin. Same with a 2.8 hilux 4x4, 250K odo, no overhaul pa rin. Pang-business pa yan at laging kargado ng kung ano-anong produkto sa grocery. Matibay siya based on my experience. Mas matulin pa nga 2L engine kesa 4d56 eh (it was able to reach 160km/h). Kahit na 2.4 lang yun at 2.5 ang 4d56.

[Ry_Tower]

Masyadong malaki ang generation gap ng Common rail at mechanical injection pump para paghambingin sila. Parang sugar ray robinson vs manny pacquiao.Dapat yung counterpart ng bawat isa ang paglabanin gaya halimbawa ng 2L vs 4d56 vs 4ja1.

+1, it should be on same technology. Non-crdi. 2.4-2.5 displacement. Sa 2L ako. Even if I own a strada and use an advie. hehehe. Mas bago naman kasi sa 4d56 kaya mas refined.

[niky]

fortuner comes with the 2.5 crdi engines,just like the innova, on 4x2 models, 3liter engine on 4x4.
toyota 2kd engine as good as the isuzu 4ja1 engine or even better? when it comes to acceleration and top speed, yes, but durability? I highly doubt it. Wala pa napapatunayan sa diesel engine ang toyota, kahit nga un sister company nila na hino, sirain ang makina

It's not easy to compare two different types of engine to one another.

Against the prehistoric 4JA1? Not really a comparison... the 4JA1 lasts a long time... any damage from poor maintenance and fuel quality takes at least 150,000 kilometers to manifest.... the common-rail 2.5 D4D can show damage as early as 60,000 kms.

But against Isuzu high-pressure direct injection engines like the 4JX1, durability is similar. And that's what you should be comparing it to... as the old 4JA1 can't pass modern emissions requirements in developed markets, like the D4D can.

Hell, my 4JA1-powered Crosswinds barely pass our even more prehistoric local emissions requirements... which is why the ASBUs keep trying to flag them down.

[cydepx44]

nissan yd25ddti: 1 engine model, 2 power outputs. sa other countries meron pa sila 3rd, yung "low"...

HI - 174HP (Navara 4x4)
Mid - 144HP (Navara 4x2)

[Ry_Tower]

Yung makina (most comonly diesel) na ginamitan ng turbocharging lumakas yung hp plus kung EFI pa then later on CRDi;

Toyota 2L merong 2L-II, 2L-T, 2L-TE, 2L-THE din.
MMC 4D56 turbo non-intercooler at 4d56 TDiC, 4D56 DiD tapos ngayon 4D56 DID vgt; 4M40 meron ding mechanical fuel injection at EFI injection na mas malakas, 4B11 meron din turbocharged version.
dami pa nga

[kkreuk18]

Oo nga pala, un 3L engine ng toyota is good. Sorry sir Ry_tower, nalimutan ko un engine na un dahil nagiisa lang ata un na naging ok base sa mga nakita ko from toyota diesel engine. Un hilux with the 2L engine, way back 2005 naghahanap ako ng pickup un tiningnan ko na hilux, ang kinis ng kaha model 97, medyo malasado na ang engine, 150K ang odo. I end up with the Isuzu pickup 96 model, na 170K ang Odo.
I agree na un 3L e matibay, maaaring matibay pa nga un sa 4d56.
Sakit ng ulo ng mga kamaganak ko sa toyota 1c at 2c. Kahit nung ioverhaul after 1 year bigay na naman.

[JJCarEnthusiast]

Oo nga pala, un 3L engine ng toyota is good. Sorry sir Ry_tower, nalimutan ko un engine na un dahil nagiisa lang ata un na naging ok base sa mga nakita ko from toyota diesel engine. Un hilux with the 2L engine, way back 2005 naghahanap ako ng pickup un tiningnan ko na hilux, ang kinis ng kaha model 97, medyo malasado na ang engine, 150K ang odo. I end up with the Isuzu pickup 96 model, na 170K ang Odo.
I agree na un 3L e matibay, maaaring matibay pa nga un sa 4d56.
Sakit ng ulo ng mga kamaganak ko sa toyota 1c at 2c. Kahit nung ioverhaul after 1 year bigay na naman.

i thought toyota engines are robust

BTT: the fact that the engines mentioned (the D4D and the hyundai engines) comes from different manufacturers masasabing their tuning and the orientation of the engine are different hence the differing power outputs despite the same displacement. also IIRC hyundai uses bosch injectors, while mitsubishi, toyota and isuzu uses their own injectors. am i right?

[dagol]

i thought toyota engines are robust

BTT: the fact that the engines mentioned (the D4D and the hyundai engines) comes from different manufacturers masasabing their tuning and the orientation of the engine are different hence the differing power outputs despite the same displacement. also IIRC hyundai uses bosch injectors, while mitsubishi, toyota and isuzu uses their own injectors. am i right?

Engine manufacturers dont make their own fuel system.They always work together with the parts makers like Bosch,Lucas,Denso,Siemens & Delphi for their fuel systems.We cant primarily blame toyota for the D4D issue.Its Denso that normally supply fuel system to Japs, while most european manufacturers utilize Bosch.

[GTi]

i thought toyota engines are robust

BTT: the fact that the engines mentioned (the D4D and the hyundai engines) comes from different manufacturers masasabing their tuning and the orientation of the engine are different hence the differing power outputs despite the same displacement. also IIRC hyundai uses bosch injectors, while mitsubishi, toyota and isuzu uses their own injectors. am i right?

AFAIK most Japanese car companies including Toyota, Mitsubishi and Isuzu use Denso injectors for their engines. Denso's are known to be more problematic as compared to Bosch injectors, and are very sensitive to dirty fuel as shown by the "choking" D4D units, as well as the problems experienced in the Trooper's 4JX1 (which also uses Denso injectors).

Toyota's 2.4L diesel is indeed a robust engine. Our family has a 1st generation Revo diesel which uses that engine. Its been to Aparri many times already and is primarily used for pangharabas. Its also more powerful than the 4D56 found in the Adventure and L300 (86hp/165Nm as compared to 73hp/147Nm in the 4D56).

[Ry_Tower]

AFAIK most Japanese car companies including Toyota, Mitsubishi and Isuzu use Denso injectors for their engines. Denso's are known to be more problematic as compared to Bosch injectors, and are very sensitive to dirty fuel as shown by the "choking" D4D units, as well as the problems experienced in the Trooper's 4JX1 (which also uses Denso injectors).

Toyota's 2.4L diesel is indeed a robust engine. Our family has a 1st generation Revo diesel which uses that engine. Its been to Aparri many times already and is primarily used for pangharabas. Its also more powerful than the 4D56 found in the Adventure and L300 (86hp/165Nm as compared to 73hp/147Nm in the 4D56).

Faster too. L200 4x2 vs Hilux 4x2, iwan L200, kahit yung 4x4 turbo intercooler pa (non-crdi). Fastest we did was 160km/h sa hilux.

[niwde11]

*LT* engines by Toyota are not that good. just google it. sabi nga nung isang forumer, the L was an excellent engine until they put turbo on it. lots of cracked heads. my LJ71 prado is one. it is now running on 1kzte. cross my finger it will not suffer the same heads like the aussie do.
you can also try to go to Banawe. dami cylinder heads na me cracked sa 1kzte at wala ng nagbebenta ng 2lte heads. lahat upgrade na sa 1kzte.

power wise, malakas ang toyota diesel engines but hindi matipid like the isuzu engines kaya di sya hit sa mga jeep or any rebuilt vehicles.