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  1. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    21,301
    #31
    PAO (polyalphaolefin, true synthetic oil) Advantages:
    - Extremely good low temperature viscosity (in case you want to start your bike at -40C or -40F).
    - Clean engine internals (downside: can also clean up crud from damaged seals in older engines, possibly allowing damaged seals to leak).
    - Low volatility (have to top up oil less).
    - More stable at extremely hot temperatures.

    Group III (Dino, highly hydroprocessed mineral oil) advantages:
    - Better profit margin for blenders, but can still be marketed as synthetic
    - Meets minimum oil specifications (as do regular oils)
    - Low volatility.
    - May be better (in some cases) to break in a new/rebuilt engine

    Regular engine oils (mineral oils):
    - Meet all warranty specifications (be sure to read your manual for specifics)
    - Less expensive
    - Less protection in EXTREME use

    look at the advantages of each kind of oil. the real benefit of synthetics can only be achieved at extreme cases (extremely low/high temp). regular mineral based oils is sufficient already for a daily driven car, unless the manufacturer specifies otherwise.

    some say they use synths to prolong their engine life, how many of your cars that were purchased brand new have actually reached 200K kms? i bet most won't even reach 100K by the time they sell the car.

    and FYI:

    There are 4 major PAO (true synthetic) producers: BP Chemical (merchant supplier), Chevron-Phillips Chemical (merchant supplier), Neste (European merchant supplier), Exxon-Mobil (mostly internal use by Mobil). Most of the big oil companies (and a few others like Castrol) produce the highly hydroprocessed mineral (Dino) oil synthetic.

  2. Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,985
    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by SNAKE V6 View Post
    Yeah, I don't agree that the climate in the Philippines will make it reasonable to use synth over non-synth, your engine's temperature is regulated by the system, or else every imported car placed in the PI would blow up (an exaggeration of course) because of the heat. I don't think that engines are made up of different metals depending on the goegraphy for which it will be marketed.

    My cars' manuals recommend non-synth every 3K miles/5K km, whether I use synth or not, so why waste my money?
    Nobody said it was made of different metals, but to each their own since it's your money. I take it that everyone just expressed their opinion on the matter. So your opinion is it's not worth it and mine is contraditory to yours because of my experience with the better mileage I get on my car and truck. It's a matter of personal preference whether you use sythetic or not. BTW Mobil 1 isn't a true synthetic since it's still uses a base that is in essence a mineral with 5% poly-a-olefin(PAO). Amsoil(PAO), Royal Purple(PAO), Motul(poly ester), and Red Line(poly ester) are a few of the true Poly based synthetic oils. Better yet here is excerpt of a post on another forum regarding synthetic vs dino oil.

    "Good post. You do not appear to be denying the technical benefits of synthetics, or their need in certain engines or driving conditions, but rather questioning whether these advantages are meaningful, perceivable, and offer value to the average driver with the average engine under average driving conditions versus a mineral oil with 3K OCIs. That’s a valid question. And there are valid reasons.

    The technical advantages you list for synthetics are directionally true. Synthetic base oils are considerably more stable at high temperatures than conventional base oils, and generally flow much better at low temperatures. Because they resist oxidation better, they also contribute less to varnish deposits, and if they contain polar base oils like esters will help clean engines and increase film strength. And the ability to allow lower viscosities without sacrificing volatility helps increase fuel efficiency. And because of the slower breakdown rate they can allow extended OCIs. BUT, to your point, do these directional benefits provide enough value to the average consumer to justify their higher price. That depends on what that average consumer wants.

    First, there is a certain percentage of people who just plain want the very best for their car, and synthetics are that. Oil companies market multiple levels of oil quality, most having a fighting grade for the price shoppers, a mid-level oil such as a Group II+ or partial synthetic for the value shoppers, and “My Best” for the quality shoppers. Synthetics represent the “My Best” line and not only get a better base oil but a better additive system as well. If you are going to pop for the cost of the synthetic base oil anyhow, most companies will go all out to create a flagship oil that will demonstrate their best technology and allow reputation enhancing advertisements. This more robust additive system in synthetics is a valuable contributor to the oil’s benefits, especially extended OCIs, and is a key reason I use synthetics.

    Second, not everyone likes to change their oil every 3,000 miles in all their cars. I am one of them and place great value on the reduced labor, cost, and hassle of lying under my car in the cold and scrubbing black oil out from under my fingernails. The stronger base oils and additive system of a good synthetic gives me sufficient comfort to change my oil once a year at 10K miles, and that more than anything is enough for me.

    In addition, some people value the insurance factor of knowing that their oil can withstand extreme conditions and protect their engine if something goes wrong, such as overheating, cold snaps, or mechanical malfunctions. Other people may be driven by environmental concerns, and synthetics contribute to reduced fuel consumption and less oil to dispose of.

    Engine durability and cleanliness are much harder to prove and probably not very meaningful for the average driver, but for those that really push their cars or intend to keep it for more than the “average” 100,000 miles, there is some comfort in the fact that synthetics can provide an extra measure of film strength through VI or polarity, whether or not visible on each UOA.

    Fact is people use synthetics for different reasons, and it is more of a personal decision based on their individual perception of value than a generic measurable formula. I use synthetics because I hate oil changes, like saving fuel, value the insurance factor, and can afford it. Other “average” drivers may not have the same drivers as I do and will do fine with cheaper convention oils and frequent changes. But will they really save money?

    If the average consumer uses four quarts of oil, drives 12,000 miles per year, and changes oil every 3,000 miles, they will buy 16 quarts of conventional oil per year, which at say $1.50/quart is $24 oil cost. To this let’s add the labor portion of an oil change at say $15, times four oil changes and we have $60 in labor for a total oil cost of $84/year.

    If one uses a synthetic at $6/quart and doubles the OCI to 6,000 miles, the oil cost is 8 quarts times $6 or $48/year. Two oil changes instead of four reduces the labor cost to $30 for a total of $78/year. Now subtract the fuel savings of say 1% and we save another $10 to give a total oil cost of $68/year. And I am not counting the less tangible “savings” that could potentially arise from reduced engine wear, easier starting, less battery draw, and insurance from mechanical mishaps. And not to mention my time saved by reducing oil changes!

    Of course we can argue these assumptions all day, but the point is that synthetics are not really as expensive as the price tag would suggest. It is not the price of the lubricant that matters, but the cost of lubrication!

    So if the best oils with stronger base oils and more robust additive systems have a total cost of lubrication for the average driver about equal to lower quality oils, why not use the best?"


    In the end it's personal choice and financial ability that makes the decision.

  3. Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    389
    #33
    The never ending oil debate.Every forum i go to there's always the oil debate.here's my 2 cents.If you're a hardcore driver,car is force induction,wallet is thick then go for Synthetic.If you're a normal car driver and your wallet is thin go mineral.

  4. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    22,658
    #34
    Add ko lang po:

    Around US$3.00-5.00 ang labor ng change oil sa Pilipinas (not US$15) At least that's the going rate at GlennSter's shop.

    Yes it is a matter of personal preference. At least there are threads like this to help consumers make informed choices. A lot of of people I know just use synths because their dealer is pushing the product on them (including scare tactics and all). These people don't even have an idea of what the opposite of synth is :lol:

    http://docotep.multiply.com/
    Need an Ambulance? We sell Zic Brand Oils and Lubricants. Please PM me.

  5. Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    72
    #35
    Mga sirs since this thread is about change oil i want to ask someone here if some of you has a timer installed in their car?because this is what my mechanic is suggesting me.he is working in saudi as engine mechanic and maitenance.this is the best way to monitor the if the engine needs to have an oil change.
    it works like this,
    once the engine starts, the timer will work and counting how long the engine is working but never reset even the engine stops.so there is a apecific period of time that the engine works before you change your oil.
    so advantage of this is you are really accurate when to change your oil and every brand of car has its time limit before changing oil and not only thru kilometer reading, coz this includes when your car is at stop but your engine works with aircon during waiting or at park.
    so every start of the engine the timer just continue.sana may mabibilhan nito dyan sa pinas. coz this is the way how this big company maitain their engines in saudi according to him.he brought one for his hiace and he change oil every 8000 hrs.
    back to this topic regular interval of change oil is better to use mineral oil than using any synthetic oil.but using synthetic oil on regular interval changing of oil will add to advantage but hurts the wallet.for those who have no problems with money then go for it.
    actually dati na akong synthetic user but lately i realize masakit sa bulsa kasi i still apply the 5000km change oil.and most of the time malinis pa yung langis ko so "SAYANG".USE mineral oil plus additive will makes your engine runs amooth also but doesn't cost you more compare to buy synthetic oil.

    bahala kayo sariling desisyon yan....But now I want to try BM1 semi synthetic from Indonesia mas mura kesa Delvac.naconvince lang ako sa exhibit nila nila at nakita ko din naman. so if i find it good then share ko dito.kaso wala pa silang export nito.

  6. Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    6,090
    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by vikoy View Post
    Mga sirs since this thread is about change oil i want to ask someone here if some of you has a timer installed in their car?because this is what my mechanic is suggesting me.he is working in saudi as engine mechanic and maitenance.this is the best way to monitor the if the engine needs to have an oil change.
    it works like this,
    once the engine starts, the timer will work and counting how long the engine is working but never reset even the engine stops.so there is a apecific period of time that the engine works before you change your oil.
    so advantage of this is you are really accurate when to change your oil and every brand of car has its time limit before changing oil and not only thru kilometer reading, coz this includes when your car is at stop but your engine works with aircon during waiting or at park.
    so every start of the engine the timer just continue.sana may mabibilhan nito dyan sa pinas. coz this is the way how this big company maitain their engines in saudi according to him.he brought one for his hiace and he change oil every 8000 hrs.
    back to this topic regular interval of change oil is better to use mineral oil than using any synthetic oil.but using synthetic oil on regular interval changing of oil will add to advantage but hurts the wallet.for those who have no problems with money then go for it.
    actually dati na akong synthetic user but lately i realize masakit sa bulsa kasi i still apply the 5000km change oil.and most of the time malinis pa yung langis ko so "SAYANG".USE mineral oil plus additive will makes your engine runs amooth also but doesn't cost you more compare to buy synthetic oil.

    bahala kayo sariling desisyon yan....But now I want to try BM1 semi synthetic from Indonesia mas mura kesa Delvac.naconvince lang ako sa exhibit nila nila at nakita ko din naman. so if i find it good then share ko dito.kaso wala pa silang export nito.
    8000 hrs? That's like 11 months! My vehicle's manual says 6 months or 5,000 kms.

  7. Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,605
    #37
    8000 hours thats almost 11 months running nonstop. I doubt that the oil can last that long.

    I think the timmer/running hours is a good idea. Most generators use this as the basis of oil changes. For most diesel generators its 250 hours, for Cat gensets its 500 hours using CG-4 or CH-4 (i forget w/c one) mineral oil.

    So 250 hours divided by say 3 hours a day is about 3 months. Most people recommend changing the oil every 3 months or 5000 kms whichever comes first. So this just might be the basis for it.
    Last edited by userfriendly; December 2nd, 2006 at 07:32 PM.

  8. Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    217
    #38
    http://63.240.161.99/motoroil/index.html

    guys, e2 po good stuff. read nyo po lahat?!

    well, for me, synthetics are really good. you really get a lot of advantages using them. i tried them before kaso di ko talaga mapigilan sarili ko when the car hits 5,000kms, i just have to change the oil, i couldn't force myself to keep on driving the car to 10,000kms. so just to be practical i went back to mineral oils, mas masarap feeling ko knowing that the oil is fresh every 5k

    about sa oil change referring to the hours, its a good idea, ganyan kasi maintenance ng mga aircraft, they have PMS every 50 hours. but then again, puro traffic dito sa pinas, mabilis aandar yang timer na yan, hahaha

  9. Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2
    #39
    Ang big difference ng Fully syn and mineral base oil is when u start the engine. Most damage sa engine dito nangyayari. Pag mineral oil mo, lahat ng oil is nasa oilpan walang proteksyon. Sa fully syn naman, in-between sa metal may naiiwan pa ding oil kaya may proteksyon pa din against friction eto ang binabayaran mo sa fully syn! 2nd ung formation ng sludge. Kahit lagi kang mag change oil sa mineral base hindi maiwasan ang sludge kaya kung cleanlines pag usapn lamng pa din fully syn. In fact most of the casa sa Europe fully syn ang gamit nila. Pag labas mo sa Casa pagkabili mo ng auto, nka fully syn na agad. Un na ang gamit nila pang break-in. Usually Mobil1 ang oil.

    Don't blend oils dapat isang brand at klase ng oil gamit mo. Kung gusto mo mag change, wait for your change oil kasi pag halo-halo nasisira ung properties ng oil dahil iba-iba ang timpla at gamit nilang technolgy sa mga oil.

  10. Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    636
    #40
    "The synthetic lubricated engine will turn over easier. This has the effect of using less power from your starter motor. It will last longer. Your battery has less of a current draw. This will also last longer. The battery was discharged less during the start so the alternator will rob less power from your engine to recharge. The alternator lasts longer and you get a little better gas economy..." - Dr. A. E. Haas

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First oil change 1000KM, mobil1 synthetic or not?