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  1. Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    286
    #11
    From http://www.toyota-europe.com/technol..._177_dcat.html
    The 177 hp 2.2-litre D-4D Clean Power engine puts Avensis in contention with the most powerful diesel cars in its class. It features the most advanced technologies available today: all aluminium construction, piezoelectric* injectors, highest-pressure common-rail system, electrically activated turbocharger, latest-generation ceramic glow plugs, and the unique Toyota D-CAT technology , which makes it the cleanest diesel engine in the world.
    Toyota can still manage a high power diesel from a low displacement according to their site, so they're not that behind from the Europeans. Perhaps D4-D engines are detuned depending on the region. I also saw on the net a chipped 1CD-FTV Turbocharged 2.0L D4-D engine for the RAV4, and it managed to get 140+hp.

  2. Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    325
    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ECG
    i heard CRD engines are beyond the repair capabilities of an ordinary mechanic/auto shop. it has to be in the "casa".
    The Germans are coming ! Got this from a friend at kotse.com :
    BOSCH just celebrated their 10th year anniversary here in the Phils. and said that they in the process of selling a test-bed for CRDI pumps to a 3rd party service provider which Bosch will train to handle repair and maintenance of CRDI type diesel injection. Bosch, through Zexel Japan (which they bought 2 years ago) are at the forefront of CRDI technology, the other player being Denso.

    The Bosch people agree that the "casa" knows little even in the way of CRDI repairs, servicing and general know-how even if some of the dealerships own similar equipment for servicing CRDI injection systems. Hopefully, when the thrid party service provider comes on, CRDI-equipped vehicles won't be such a risky ownership proposition in the long run.

  3. Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    325
    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelparadigm
    From http://www.toyota-europe.com/technol..._177_dcat.html


    Toyota can still manage a high power diesel from a low displacement according to their site, so they're not that behind from the Europeans. Perhaps D4-D engines are detuned depending on the region. I also saw on the net a chipped 1CD-FTV Turbocharged 2.0L D4-D engine for the RAV4, and it managed to get 140+hp.
    I was blown-away when I read the section on Toyota's 2.2li. CRDI giving 177bhp coming out this mid-2005 - that's 80hp/li. and at par with Benz 120D's 81hp/li. (as noted by mazdamazda) using piezoelectric injectors instead of CRDI's usual solenoid injectors.

    Isn't this the same technology in Epson's Stylus Inkjet printers using piezoelectric injectors to produce ultra-fine 1440x1440 dpi resolution? Amazing how they can exploit a particular technology and apply it to very diverse uses!

  4. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    4,614
    #14
    i wouldn't pay too much attention to hp/L specific displacement. it's really all academic and is mostly useful for spec-sheet racing hehe. i'm all for advanced technolody and all that, but i'd still personally take a 70 hp/L corvette over a 120 hp/L S2000 screamer hehe.

    i wonder if the high-specific-output european turbodiesels are as durable (in general and over the long term) than the tamer japanese ones (the ealy-ZD30 debacle notwithstanding)

  5. Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    6,058
    #15
    CRDi is much much better than ordinary diesel engines, but it needs to run on cleaner diesel, not the ones found in our country.

  6. Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    4,313
    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by falken
    CRDi is much much better than ordinary diesel engines, but it needs to run on cleaner diesel, not the ones found in our country.

    Car manufacturers knew the diesel condition here. So, they should adapt their engines to our dirty diesel. If the oil company cleans the diesel, how much would it cost? Costlier than gas?

  7. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    14,825
    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger
    I was blown-away when I read the section on Toyota's 2.2li. CRDI giving 177bhp coming out this mid-2005 - that's 80hp/li. and at par with Benz 120D's 81hp/li. (as noted by mazdamazda) using piezoelectric injectors instead of CRDI's usual solenoid injectors.
    Btw, there's also the SLK 320 tri-turbo that generates around 286hp (95.3hp/L).

  8. Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    255
    #18
    just my 2 cents...

    there are pros and cons with CRDI... personally, there are more pros. the only draw back I see is the "new" technology which makes it hard to fix in a talyer or in a field kung nasa outdoor ka. And it being "new" madami pang bugs like being too sensitive with dirty diesel. (personally I dont think its too sensitive... i own a trooper)

    Just like when EFI was introduced... most people said it was slower compared to carburators and harder to fix in a talyer (coz you need some computer, etc.) but most cars now are EFI... and a talyer can already handle EFI engines easily... its very seldom you see carburator engine cars being sold as new

    So give it a few years... your talyer shop can handle CRDI easily...

  9. Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    918
    #19
    yes, common rail technology is that good! it has good fuel economy if you can resist the urge to mash the accelerator pedal -- which releases the oodles of torque you have in reserve. my old school nissan engines were never this fun, but i still do miss the clatter of the old sd33t engine.

    OT: it never fails to amuse me how crdi threads almost always morph into discussions about the perceived poor quality of diesel fuel in the country. o sige, maki-ot na rin ako...

    i read up on crdi systems more than a year ago before i bought my crdi vehicle (2004 kia carnival). i was of the belief then that if i change my fuel filter earlier than what the manufacturer suggests or if i don't exceed the severe duty filter cycle recommendation, then my vehicle's injectors are safe. but i was sufficiently disturbed by the repeated allegations of dirty diesel in the diesel forums so i did research on fuel contamination. the following link from aidworkers.net conveniently sums up what i learned: http://www.aidworkers.net/logistics/page.php?id=8

    Diesel Fuel Contamination and Fuel Filter Plugging

    Fuel contamination is a fact of life. Preventing problems and equipment damage associated with contaminated fuel is primarily the responsibility of the end user. These responsibilities include the proper and timely replacement and servicing of the filters; selection of the fuel source, grade, and blend; and use of heaters, separators, and additives as required.

    Fuel filters capture unwanted contaminants from the fuel. Left unchecked, these contaminants may cause serious and expensive damage to many system components including pumps, lines, and injectors. Fuel contaminants have many sources. Most sources are external to the fuel system itself, that is, most contaminants come with the fuel that is delivered to the fuel tank. As it comes from the refinery, diesel fuel is clean. Contaminants in diesel fuel are generally introduced in fuel storage systems through mixing, transferring, and storage.

    Fuel filters naturally build resistance to the flow of fuel as they go about their job of removing unwanted contaminants from the fuel system. Fuel systems, unlike lube systems, do not have the opportunity for bypass flow and consequently, as flow through the fuel filter decreases, decreased performance of the fuel system and the engine will result. Fuel filters will become restricted or plugged over their life -- this is an expected result. A thorough investigation of the filter and the fuel source should be conducted anytime a fuel filter is suspected of delivering less than its expected life.

    Some common contaminants found in today's fuels might include:

    Water -- is the greatest concern because it is the most common form of contaminant. Water may be introduced into the fuel supply during fueling when warm, moisture laden air condenses on the cold metal walls of fuel storage tanks or from poor housekeeping practices. The effects of water in diesel fuel can be serious. Water can cause a tip to blow off an injector, or reduce the lubricity of the fuel which can cause seizure of close tolerance assemblies such as plungers.

    Once in the system, water can be removed by using in-line water separating filters or devices. Long term prevention of problems associated with water in fuel is best accomplished by obtaining fuel from reputable suppliers capable of providing high quality fuel. Further, fuel tanks should be kept well filled to prevent condensation, and fuel should be drawn from the top of a storage tank if possible, as water is heavier than diesel fuel and tends to settle to the bottom of storage tanks. Tanks can also be kept free of water with continuous off-line or "kidney-loop" filtration/separation. Fungus and Bacteria -- These microorganisms live in water and feed on the hydrocarbons found in fuel. Called Humbugs for short, these active and multiplying colonies will spread throughout a fuel system and quickly plug a fuel filter. The fuel filter will have a slime coating over the surface of the media, dramatically reducing the service life of the filter. Bacteria may be any color, but is usually black, green or brown. Draining the system will reduce microbial activity, but will not eliminate it. The only way to eliminate microbial growth once it has started is to clean and treat the system with a biocide.

    Wax -- while desirable as a source of energy in fuel, control in cold weather operation is needed. Wax crystals form as a result of cold temperature precipitation of paraffin. Temperatures below a fuel's cloud point will result in wax precipitation and filter plugging. To prevent plugged filters due to wax formation, the cloud point of fuel must be at least -12 degrees Celsius (10o F) below the lowest outside temperature. Fuel suppliers blend diesel fuel based on local anticipated cold weather conditions. Particular attention should be given to diesel fuel purchased outside your local area. For example, fuel purchased in the West or South may not be suitable for operating conditions in the Midwest or North.

    Asphaltines -- are components of asphalt that are generally insoluble and are generally present to some extent in all diesel fuel. These black, tarry asphaltines are hard and brittle, and are made up of long molecules. Fuel with a high percentage of asphaltines will drastically shorten the life of a fuel filter.

    Sediment and other solids -- often get into fuel tanks and cause problems. Most sediment can be removed by settling or filtration. Fuel filters designed for specific applications will remove these harmful contaminants before they cause further system wear and damage.

    In no case should a more "open" filter be substituted to fix a perceived problem with premature plugging. Plugged filters will develop as the filter works to remove unwanted contaminants from the fuel system. Filter manufacturers design fuel filters to provide the level of filtration protection specified or required by the OEM manufacturer. Substitution of a more "open" filter may prolong a filter's life before plugging occurs, but it will also allow unwanted contaminants to pass downstream which will eventually impact the life of other, more expensive fuel system components.

    Clean fuel is essential for efficient, full-power engine performance. Remember, newly refined fuel is clean. Between the time the fuel leaves the refinery and enters the engine's fuel tanks, it should be handled carefully to avoid possible contamination that can prematurely plug fuel filters and cause even further, more serious damage within the engine's fuel system.
    those who believe that philippine diesel fuel is dirty were right all along but many of them may not be aware how that came to be. it is water contamination that spooked me because the above-mentioned condensation that occurs in the car's fuel tank is replicated on a much larger scale in the storage tanks of gasoline stations. i have recently bought a mr. funnel water separator that i used in my last three refuels of around 35 liters each in different service stations when i went to metromanila and back. i was taken aback by the fact that i got about 300 ml of water in just one refuel alone! the two other refuels were lesser, around 200 ml each.

    i then realized that i must have a lot of water sloshing around in my fuel tank. to add to my paranoia, the water sensor in my instrument cluster panel has not lighted up even once. does this mean then that oem filters are not really up to this task? that they might let water through their membranes? this really underscores the need for a filter that incorporates a water separator. and this concern is also valid for the non-crdi injection engines as the same issue also affects them.

  10. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    779
    #20

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Is Common Rail Technology THAT Good???