Is Common Rail Technology THAT Good???

[Gen1]

dieseline:

where did you buy your mr funnel water separator?

[OTEP]

i heard CRD engines are beyond the repair capabilities of an ordinary mechanic/auto shop. it has to be in the "casa".

Presently medyo mahirap. Pero remember that technology trickles down.

Remember when the first fuel injected cars (Corolla, Sentra ECCS, etc.) were unservicable by the average mechanic? Pero ngayon kahit saan pwede mo na ipaayos.

Same with automatic climate control systems. Ngayon pati climate control ng older BMW 7-series sedans naaayos ni Mang Mario.

[diesoline]

gen1, you got pm.

[KCboy]

i think crdi is that good. look at the crdi 3.0 engine of the bmw 5 series, it produces 500nm....that's a lot for a 3.0 6 cylinder sedan. more torque that some gas fed v8 engines.euro can makers are starting to invest more in diesel technology than ever before. i think the japs should follow.

[larshell]

Besides the claimed better fuel consumption I've read somewhere that a key benefit of CRDI technology is the fact that the incidence of getting clogged injectors (due to the poor quality of diesel fuel) will substantially decrease.

I dont think that diesel is really the problem, like in Innova's case mine has this Hard/failed starting but Innova_boy unit dont have this problem and were using the same fuel brand. I think the fault here is wd the manufacturer like Toyota
maybe coz High demand Quality Control seuffers.

[KCboy]

troopers were one of the first crdi engines made locally available and they had a lot of problems with the injectors...me included.

[oldblue]

I dont think that diesel is really the problem, like in Innova's case mine has this Hard/failed starting but Innova_boy unit dont have this problem and were using the same fuel brand. I think the fault here is wd the manufacturer like Toyota
maybe coz High demand Quality Control seuffers.

that is very true. we stayed away from Toyota since the reign of the Corolla GL & GLi. noon panahon na yun, halos lahat naka-Corolla, it's status quo. pero napansin ko pag inuutusan ako dad ko pa-service car nya, halos d na ako ma-service-an coz ang dami nagpapa-service. we shifted to Honda , konti pa meron and VIP treatment pa din hehehe. Then came the gen2 CRV, shift ulit kami hehehe.

but now it seems that Ford service centers are getting jampacked na din coz of the very successful Everest.

[larshell]

that is very true. we stayed away from Toyota since the reign of the Corolla GL & GLi. noon panahon na yun, halos lahat naka-Corolla, it's status quo. pero napansin ko pag inuutusan ako dad ko pa-service car nya, halos d na ako ma-service-an coz ang dami nagpapa-service. we shifted to Honda , konti pa meron and VIP treatment pa din hehehe. Then came the gen2 CRV, shift ulit kami hehehe.

but now it seems that Ford service centers are getting jampacked na din coz of the very successful Everest.

You have a point there, pag nabenta ko yong Innova ko Montero sports ang ipapalit ko yong utol ko Bihira pa kami pa sa kalsada

[webmiester]

The Department of Energy here in the Philippines periodically do "fun runs" to determine fuel economy of certain vehicles.

I first saw this 2 years ago and was surprised when a BMW X5 beat the Isuzu Highlander of that time and all the other diesel engines by a wide margin. The X5 diesel registered at about 24km/L while the Highlander came it at about 14km/L. My figures might not be exact because I saw the article 2 years ago, but I recall that the disparity between the two were around this big.

I think this was one of the 1st displays of the CRDi technology back then which the Europeans were already developing.

Correspondingly, I noticed that the CRDi's of Hyundai which I test drove did not vibrate as much as normal diesel engines. According to their sales people, Hyundai uses a European CRDi system (I think it was Bosch, not sure), which is supposed to be superior to the Japanese or American CRDi's.

[kinyo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_Motori

no wonder now where Hyundai get their CRDI engines!

and we'd soon be getting a VM Motori engine too ... on a Captiva!

[TJMaxx]

In a financial/economic point of view:
Maybe the question should be "Are CRDIs worth their price premiums?"

Does increased fuel efficiency from a D4D justify its cost premium
over a similar model powered by a VVT-i? How long would the price
premium for the D4D be paid-off via incremental savings in fuel costs?

In the span of 1 year after lapse of warranty, which vehicle would entail
the least out-of-pocket expense in terms of PMS and spare parts
replacement?
The CRDi (e.g. D4D)
The Gas (e.g. VVTi) or
Old Style Diesel (e.g. Isuzu/Mitsu)

Well, some people really don't consider the economic side of car ownership but for a working stiff like me who'll be amortizing car loan payments for the next 60 months, that CRDi better be economically viable and worth its premium for me to even consider it.

[cardo]

Presently medyo mahirap. Pero remember that technology trickles down.

Remember when the first fuel injected cars (Corolla, Sentra ECCS, etc.) were unservicable by the average mechanic? Pero ngayon kahit saan pwede mo na ipaayos.

Same with automatic climate control systems. Ngayon pati climate control ng older BMW 7-series sedans naaayos ni Mang Mario.

question is, how long will that technology trickle down to the normal/generic garage?

In my opinion, I'd rather look at the warranty coverage of the car if you are unsure about where to get it fixed. If the dealer says they'll cover any problem your crdi engine encounters than it would be great. But then, it helps also if there are options out there as well such as other vendors who can fix the crdi engine. yun nga lang as of this time, its limited and there is no proper guage when these more affordable options would get this technology. you can also transfer the responsibility of that risk(crdi problem) say for example, by extending the warranty or including it in your insurance coverage so that you dont have to worry about it. let others worry about your car, tutal thats why you bought insurance and warranties.

[4JGtootsie]

It is inevitable that diesel engines will have to depend on common rail technology.Whether we agree or not.

"The invention of the common rail diesel fuel injection system by Bosch is the technology that makes modern diesel engines such great performers. The technology gives engine developers the freedom to reduce emissions and lower engine noise, and yet, to significantly increase power output"

We have emission control, fuel effeciency, power, low noise.

[DLV]

is it possible to retrofit old school diesel engines with the new crdi systems?

[4JGtootsie]

Pag whole engine and computer box its possible. Pero old school to common rail magulo, mahal, matagal at handi pa segurado.To be even considered the engine should be direct injection already.

[Diesel_Torque]

Maganda talaga ang Performance ng CRDI Diesel Engine, Kaya ang payo ko sa mga Tsikoters ntin dyan na balak bumili ng Diesel na ssakyan CRDI na ung piliin nyo because practical na at environmental Friendly pa kc nga hindi na mausok gaya ng nkasanayan na natin na diesel na para bang nagsisiga ng gulong pag umaarangkada haha!

Anyway take note the Best CRDI engine is German Technology which Bosch kc cla ung una na nka-develop nito, ung sa Denso gumaya na lang yun pra masabi na meron na rin cla CRDI Technology which is dami pa problema sa madaling salita pirated cla ng CRDI Technology haha! German technology pa rin ang da best compare to Japan wlang duda yan. Japan kc nagmamadali lagi yan kya sumasablay eh haha! Joke!

[coolman]

Maganda talaga ang Performance ng CRDI Diesel Engine, Kaya ang payo ko sa mga Tsikoters ntin dyan na balak bumili ng Diesel na ssakyan CRDI na ung piliin nyo because practical na at environmental Friendly pa kc nga hindi na mausok gaya ng nkasanayan na natin na diesel na para bang nagsisiga ng gulong pag umaarangkada haha!

Anyway take note the Best CRDI engine is German Technology which Bosch kc cla ung una na nka-develop nito, ung sa Denso gumaya na lang yun pra masabi na meron na rin cla CRDI Technology which is dami pa problema sa madaling salita pirated cla ng CRDI Technology haha! German technology pa rin ang da best compare to Japan wlang duda yan. Japan kc nagmamadali lagi yan kya sumasablay eh haha! Joke!

Sir, can you pls cite examples of vehicles that use german CRDi technology as againest denso CRDi technology?

[4JGtootsie]

Aside from the higher injection capability.
I like to quote Gary Hirschlieb- Bosch VP Diesel Engineering.

"The advantage of the common rail is you dont't have to have the injection events timed exactly to the crankshaft, tied back to any gear train. The injection event isn't restricted by the crankshaft position, you can inject anytime you choose."

Another thing to watch in diesel technology is the use of peizo stacks in the injector for actuation. Piezo crystals have the special characteristics of expanding rapidly when an electric field is applied to them. The movement of the piezo packet is transmitted friction free, using no mechanical parts, to rapidly switching jet needles. Thus it can be controlled electronically to very high level of accuracy. Piezo injector are more precise metering of the amount of fuel injected and improved atomization of the fuel in the cylinders. Ford has adopted this technology with Siemens which have common rail designs and components.

I am a fan of old school diesel but if we avoid looking to the future we might lag behind and end up like dinosaurs. Peace!

[4JGtootsie]

Sir, can you pls cite examples of vehicles that use german CRDi technology as againest denso CRDi technology?

A great number of european diesels use Bosch. I think the reason they excel in terms of innovation and reliability is because of there RD they are always steps ahead. Toyota and other Japanese engines rely on Denzo. Zexel is a Bosch company. I think Korean diesels rely on Bosch also.

[coiter]

I am a fan of old school diesel but if we avoid looking to the future we might lag behind and end up like dinosaurs. Peace!

i agree. well crdi should be THAT good or even better coz like it or not it is the present and most probably the future of diesel technology. just like direct injection before. same thing with efi for gas.

but kahit i-base mo lang sa tunog at vibration level, super laki na ng improvement compared to old school diesel engines.