Is Common Rail Technology THAT Good???

[corbon44]

Just want to get the opinion of those with Common-Rail Diesel engine-powered rides - be it Troopers, Innovas, or Benzes - to share their impressions in terms of performance, noise/vibration level, and fuel economy. Especially fuel economy!

CRD fuel economy is supposed to range around 44 mpg (18km/li) for a 2.5 li to a 3.0 li displacement engine (well that's what most brochures claim) combined for both city and hiway driving. Just want to know first-hand from owners if there's any truth to this.

Thanks!

[BlueBimmer]

well on paper they have higher power output and better fuel consumption compared to normal direct injection diesels. only disadvantage is the injector fouling up coz of our dirty diesel.

[Innova_Boy]

Well for Innovas and Hilux...the max you can get is around 12-14km/L only base on user experiences here..

On Power/Torque side, it's the best there is so far and it wont let you down in uphill even overtaking power..

On it's efficiency considering our diesels here.. can never tell this early.. lets wait for 2 more years to predict the outcome..

my 0.02

WBR,

[j_avonni]

Well for Innovas and Hilux...the max you can get is around 12-14km/L only base on user experiences here..

On Power/Torque side, it's the best there is so far and it wont let you down in uphill even overtaking power..

On it's efficiency considering our diesels here.. can never tell this early.. lets wait for 2 more years to predict the outcome..

my 0.02

WBR,

Since, this is a new tech, all we have are just claims. So, as Innova Boy suggests, let's wait for 2 years, or even a year, kung ano ang performance ng CRD.

[jaeger]

Most of the knowledge we have on CRDI's are what's available on the net.

It's true that CRDI's are finicky on fuel cleanliness that's why they put in two (2) fuel filters on the new Hi-lux Vigo's 3.0Li. (a pre-filter & a main filter). Shell Phils. Helpdesk/Hotline says you need at least 2-micron fuel filtration capability on CRDI's or else the tiny solenoid switches on each of the injectors will trip when the dirt on our diesel gets stuck on the injector valves. The tolerances are just too fine.

Isuzu says that there's already 3-generations of CRDI engines; and brags that they are already at 3rd-Gen. CRDI technology. Isuzu bases this on common rail injection pressure :
1st-Gen CRDI : up to 135 megapascal injection pressure (first Troopers)
2nd-Gen CRDI : up to 165 megapascal injection pressure (Toyota D-4D)
3rd-Gen CRDI : up to 180 megapascal injection pressure (Alterra)

Toyota-Europe has a good knowledge base on their D-4D CRDI engines, check out these links :

http://www.toyota-europe.com/technol...ines/d_4d.html
http://www.toyota-europe.com/technol..._177_dcat.html
http://www.toyota-europe.com/technol...ines/dcat.html
http://www.toyota-europe.com/technol...ines/dpnr.html

As far as European CRDIs go, they are already hitting 50Kw (or 68hp) per liter of engine displacement. Thus for a 2.5 li. CRDI engine, the MB/BMW/Audi engines are already giving out 170hp of power. The Japanese are lagging behind here. Toyota's new 3.0li. CRDI on the Hi-lux is giving out 163hp, and the Europeans are laughing coz. to them, this engine displacement should already be giving out 204hp and not just 163hp!

Food for thought.

[mazdamazda]

As far as European CRDIs go, they are already hitting 50Kw (or 68hp) per liter of engine displacement. Thus for a 2.5 li. CRDI engine, the MB/BMW/Audi engines are already giving out 170hp of power.

The engine found in the BMW 120d is already hitting 81hp / L.

Imagine... the 120d has almost the same power output as that of the Fortuner 3.0L D4D!

[mbt]

claimed fuel economy figures are very often very different from real-world driving. there are many factors that influence fuel economy, and not just the engine size: gearing (and hence revs), driving style, and especially traffic. even the EPA fuel economy figures in the US are most useful only as a point of comparison between different car models (because the EPA test is highly standarized and repeatable)... but it does not mean that the EPA is guaranteeing that owners will get the same fuel economy figures as they got in their testing.

the manufacturer can run the vehicle at 60 km/h with a huge truck in front of it (to cut air resistance) with the aircon off, with the wipers removed, with the side mirrors folded in, with duct tape covering panel gaps, with the tires at a very high pressure (for reduced rolling resistance) and with the tranny in neutral and claim that it gets 20 km/L.

as a rule, don't believe claims in the brochure.

[paj4x4]

Besides the claimed better fuel consumption I've read somewhere that a key benefit of CRDI technology is the fact that the incidence of getting clogged injectors (due to the poor quality of diesel fuel) will substantially decrease.

[larshell]

Besides the claimed better fuel consumption I've read somewhere that a key benefit of CRDI technology is the fact that the incidence of getting clogged injectors (due to the poor quality of diesel fuel) will substantially decrease.

I dont think that diesel is really the problem, like in Innova's case mine has this Hard/failed starting but Innova_boy unit dont have this problem and were using the same fuel brand. I think the fault here is wd the manufacturer like Toyota
maybe coz High demand Quality Control seuffers.

[oldblue]

I dont think that diesel is really the problem, like in Innova's case mine has this Hard/failed starting but Innova_boy unit dont have this problem and were using the same fuel brand. I think the fault here is wd the manufacturer like Toyota
maybe coz High demand Quality Control seuffers.

that is very true. we stayed away from Toyota since the reign of the Corolla GL & GLi. noon panahon na yun, halos lahat naka-Corolla, it's status quo. pero napansin ko pag inuutusan ako dad ko pa-service car nya, halos d na ako ma-service-an coz ang dami nagpapa-service. we shifted to Honda , konti pa meron and VIP treatment pa din hehehe. Then came the gen2 CRV, shift ulit kami hehehe.

but now it seems that Ford service centers are getting jampacked na din coz of the very successful Everest.

[larshell]

that is very true. we stayed away from Toyota since the reign of the Corolla GL & GLi. noon panahon na yun, halos lahat naka-Corolla, it's status quo. pero napansin ko pag inuutusan ako dad ko pa-service car nya, halos d na ako ma-service-an coz ang dami nagpapa-service. we shifted to Honda , konti pa meron and VIP treatment pa din hehehe. Then came the gen2 CRV, shift ulit kami hehehe.

but now it seems that Ford service centers are getting jampacked na din coz of the very successful Everest.

You have a point there, pag nabenta ko yong Innova ko Montero sports ang ipapalit ko yong utol ko Bihira pa kami pa sa kalsada

[ECG]

i heard CRD engines are beyond the repair capabilities of an ordinary mechanic/auto shop. it has to be in the "casa".

[jaeger]

i heard CRD engines are beyond the repair capabilities of an ordinary mechanic/auto shop. it has to be in the "casa".

The Germans are coming ! Got this from a friend at kotse.com :
BOSCH just celebrated their 10th year anniversary here in the Phils. and said that they in the process of selling a test-bed for CRDI pumps to a 3rd party service provider which Bosch will train to handle repair and maintenance of CRDI type diesel injection. Bosch, through Zexel Japan (which they bought 2 years ago) are at the forefront of CRDI technology, the other player being Denso.

The Bosch people agree that the "casa" knows little even in the way of CRDI repairs, servicing and general know-how even if some of the dealerships own similar equipment for servicing CRDI injection systems. Hopefully, when the thrid party service provider comes on, CRDI-equipped vehicles won't be such a risky ownership proposition in the long run.

[OTEP]

i heard CRD engines are beyond the repair capabilities of an ordinary mechanic/auto shop. it has to be in the "casa".

Presently medyo mahirap. Pero remember that technology trickles down.

Remember when the first fuel injected cars (Corolla, Sentra ECCS, etc.) were unservicable by the average mechanic? Pero ngayon kahit saan pwede mo na ipaayos.

Same with automatic climate control systems. Ngayon pati climate control ng older BMW 7-series sedans naaayos ni Mang Mario.

[cardo]

Presently medyo mahirap. Pero remember that technology trickles down.

Remember when the first fuel injected cars (Corolla, Sentra ECCS, etc.) were unservicable by the average mechanic? Pero ngayon kahit saan pwede mo na ipaayos.

Same with automatic climate control systems. Ngayon pati climate control ng older BMW 7-series sedans naaayos ni Mang Mario.

question is, how long will that technology trickle down to the normal/generic garage?

In my opinion, I'd rather look at the warranty coverage of the car if you are unsure about where to get it fixed. If the dealer says they'll cover any problem your crdi engine encounters than it would be great. But then, it helps also if there are options out there as well such as other vendors who can fix the crdi engine. yun nga lang as of this time, its limited and there is no proper guage when these more affordable options would get this technology. you can also transfer the responsibility of that risk(crdi problem) say for example, by extending the warranty or including it in your insurance coverage so that you dont have to worry about it. let others worry about your car, tutal thats why you bought insurance and warranties.

[4JGtootsie]

It is inevitable that diesel engines will have to depend on common rail technology.Whether we agree or not.

"The invention of the common rail diesel fuel injection system by Bosch is the technology that makes modern diesel engines such great performers. The technology gives engine developers the freedom to reduce emissions and lower engine noise, and yet, to significantly increase power output"

We have emission control, fuel effeciency, power, low noise.

[Josh0027]

As far as nababasa ko kasi, deterrent ang fuel natin dito. Madumi kasi...

[pixelparadigm]

From http://www.toyota-europe.com/technol..._177_dcat.html

The 177 hp 2.2-litre D-4D Clean Power engine puts Avensis in contention with the most powerful diesel cars in its class. It features the most advanced technologies available today: all aluminium construction, piezoelectric* injectors, highest-pressure common-rail system, electrically activated turbocharger, latest-generation ceramic glow plugs, and the unique Toyota D-CAT technology , which makes it the cleanest diesel engine in the world.

Toyota can still manage a high power diesel from a low displacement according to their site, so they're not that behind from the Europeans. Perhaps D4-D engines are detuned depending on the region. I also saw on the net a chipped 1CD-FTV Turbocharged 2.0L D4-D engine for the RAV4, and it managed to get 140+hp.

[jaeger]

From http://www.toyota-europe.com/technol..._177_dcat.html


Toyota can still manage a high power diesel from a low displacement according to their site, so they're not that behind from the Europeans. Perhaps D4-D engines are detuned depending on the region. I also saw on the net a chipped 1CD-FTV Turbocharged 2.0L D4-D engine for the RAV4, and it managed to get 140+hp.

I was blown-away when I read the section on Toyota's 2.2li. CRDI giving 177bhp coming out this mid-2005 - that's 80hp/li. and at par with Benz 120D's 81hp/li. (as noted by mazdamazda) using piezoelectric injectors instead of CRDI's usual solenoid injectors.

Isn't this the same technology in Epson's Stylus Inkjet printers using piezoelectric injectors to produce ultra-fine 1440x1440 dpi resolution? Amazing how they can exploit a particular technology and apply it to very diverse uses!

[mazdamazda]

I was blown-away when I read the section on Toyota's 2.2li. CRDI giving 177bhp coming out this mid-2005 - that's 80hp/li. and at par with Benz 120D's 81hp/li. (as noted by mazdamazda) using piezoelectric injectors instead of CRDI's usual solenoid injectors.

Btw, there's also the SLK 320 tri-turbo that generates around 286hp (95.3hp/L).