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  1. Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    64
    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ghosthunter View Post
    That is the 3rd time you asked the same question. I might be mistaken but I am getting the impression you might be selling them *** toys.
    hi guys, no, i'm not selling this device, actually i'm considering to buy one kaya i'm researching if somebody have tried it, kasi medyo impressive yung salestalk sa akin. But i think nobody in tsikot have used it. anyway thanks for the comments.

  2. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    29,354
    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by dr j View Post
    hi guys, no, i'm not selling this device, actually i'm considering to buy one kaya i'm researching if somebody have tried it, kasi medyo impressive yung salestalk sa akin. But i think nobody in tsikot have used it. anyway thanks for the comments.
    The sales talk is always impressive might the product being pushed was Khaos, Turbo-ZET, or Ginza chef's knife set. Even simply watching those AS_SEEN_ON_TV paid ads can get hypnotizing enough to convince anyone that those products being sold on TV as the next best invention since the wheel.

    The key is the ability to separate the truth from the bullsh!t being sold to you.

  3. Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    12
    #43
    mukhang pwede ah....

    hehehe

  4. Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    4
    #44
    hello...can anyone explain or at least have an idea regarding this Hydrogen-booster device that claims to increase power and eventually save you fuel. The device works (according to them) by generating Hydrogen from water using electrolysis, will increase or enhance the combustion producing better yeild. Will this be the same mechanism with the alcohol-enhance combustion for the diesel engine? I hope some one will give their brigth and helpful ideas with regards to this matter. Thanks and more power!

  5. Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    2,954
    #45
    http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...html?series=19

    [SIZE=3]The Truth About Water-Powered Cars: Mechanic's Diary
    [/SIZE]
    It's one thing for a car to run on air, but do the latest claims of hydrogen-turned-oxygen-turned-electricity propulsion hold water—or feed in to the hysteria of the gas crunch? In his biweekly online column, PM's senior automotive editor focuses his chemistry prowess on the case of miracle water fuel, then builds an HHO car himself.

    By Mike Allen
    Published on: July 3, 2008

    From a startup snagging headlines to DIYers posting plans, water-powered cars have been all over the Web recently—not to mention stuffing my email inbox.

    Yes, you can run your car on water. All it takes is to build a “water-burning hybrid” is the installation of a simple, often home-made electrolysis cell under the hood of your vehicle. The key is to take electricity from the car’s electrical system to electrolyze water into a gaseous mixture of hydrogen and oxygen, often referred to as Brown’s Gas or HHO or oxyhydrogen. Typically, the mixture is in a ratio of 2:1 hydrogen atoms to oxygen atoms. This is then immediately piped into the intake manifold to replace some of the expensive gasoline you’ve been paying through the nose for these last couple of months. These simple “kits” will increase your fuel economy and decrease your bills and dependence on foreign petroleum by anywhere from 15 to 300 percent.

    There’s even a Japanese company, Genepax, showing off a prototype that runs on nothing but water. On June 13 Reuters published a report on the prototype, complete with a now much-blogged-about video even showing an innocuous gray box in the Genepax vehicle'strunk supplying all the power to drive the car. All you have to do is add an occasional bottle of Evian (or tea, or whatever aqueous fluid is handy), then drive all over without ever needing gasoline.

    So what do I think about all of this? Why haven’t I tested and written about this stuff? It’s certain to Change the World As We Know It ... right?

    Rubbish.

    The only real definitive claim Genepax makes on its Web site is that its process is going to save the world from global warming. (A request for comment was not returned at press time.) Their Water Energy System (WES) appears to be nothing more than a fuel cell converting the hydrogen and oxygen back into electricity, which is used to run to a motor that drives the wheels. Fuel cell technology is well-understood and pretty efficient at changing hydrogen and oxygen into electricity and water, which is where we came in, right? Except the hydrogen came from water in the first place—something doesn’t add up here.

    Here’s the deal, people: There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.

    There is energy in water. Chemically, it’s locked up in the atomic bonds between the hydrogen and oxygen atoms. When the hydrogen and oxygen combine, whether it’s in a fuel cell, internal combustion engine running on hydrogen, or a jury-rigged pickup truck with an electrolysis cell in the bed, there’s energy left over in the form of heat or electrons. That’s converted to mechanical energy by the pistons and crankshaft or electrical motors to move the vehicle.

    Problem: It takes exactly the same amount of energy to pry those hydrogen and oxygen atoms apart inside the electrolysis cell as you get back when they recombine inside the fuel cell. The laws of thermodynamics haven’t changed, in spite of any hype you read on some blog or news aggregator. Subtract the losses to heat in the engine and alternator and electrolysis cell, and you’re losing energy, not gaining it—period.

    But enough about Genepax, which is sort of tangential to my main thesis here, and on to a more common topic in my mail que: HHO as a means of extending the fuel economy of conventional IC engines.

    HHO enthusiasts—from hypermilers to Average Joes desperate to save at the pump—suggest that hydrogen changes the way gasoline burns in the combustion chamber, making it burn more efficiently or faster. Okay, there have been a couple of engineering papers that suggest a trace of hydrogen can change the combustion characteristics of ultra-lean-burning stratified-charge engines. Properly managed H2 enrichment seems to increase the burn rate of the hydrocarbons in the cylinder, extracting more energy. However, these studies only suggest increases in fuel economy by a few percentage points and don’t apply unless the engine is running far too lean for decent emissions. That’s a long way from the outrageous claims of as much as 300-percent improvements in economy that I see on the Internet and in my mailbox.

    There’s no reason to believe that even more modest increases claimed by some of the ads could be achieved by a conventional, computer-controlled automobile engine running under closed-loop driving—that is, the computer’s ability to sample the oxygen output of the engine’s exhaust in real time and slew the fuel/air ratio for big mpg and small emissions. The combustion chamber events are far different in the type of ultra-lean-burn engines where hydrogen enrichment has been seen to help. Ultra-lean means there’s a lot of extra oxygen around for the hydrogen to have something to react with—far more than the very modest amount we’re sucking in from the typical homebrew hydrogen generator made from a Mason jar. And remember, these studies deal with hydrogen enrichment under closely-controlled lab conditions, not spraying an uncontrolled amount of hydrogen-oxygen mixture into your air cleaner.

    I’m building a water-electrolyzer car—right now. The electrolysis cell assembly is on my workbench and ready to install, so stay tuned for the test results soon. If it works, then you can believe the hype.

  6. Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    #46
    http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...html?series=19

    [SIZE=3]Water-Powered Cars: Hydrogen Electrolyzer Mod Can't Up MPGs[/SIZE]

    After batting down the hype over startups and DIYers claiming they could run a car on water, PM's senior automotive editor installs a hand-built HHO kit—only to find he was right the first time. Can bad chemistry keep the myth of the water car alive? More heavy testing in the PM garage will tell.

    By Mike Allen
    Published on: August 7, 2008

    Water-powered cars continue to be the largest single topic taking over my in box—and the Comments section of this Web site. And it's not just my recent column on the truth about water-chugging prototypes. This trend has become an obsession with many backyard inventors, and some of them have become quite strident, insisting that if I knew anything at all about cars, I'd be embracing this technology. They say it could help change the world as we know it. They even say it could eliminate the energy crisis altogether. For this sentiment, I applaud them. And honestly, I hope it's all true.

    Unfortunately, I have to indict their physics. The entire concept of running your car on water is based on bad science. The idea is to use electricity from the car's alternator to electrolyze water into HHO, a mixture of pure hydrogen and oxygen. This mix is fed into the intake air, where it is burned along with gasoline, thereby increasing your fuel economy anywhere from 15 to 100 percent—depending on which Web site you're visiting. Believe the hype, and those 1 to 2 liters of HHO streamed into the engine will double the fuel economy, clean the engine out, and maybe even grow hair. Plenty of these budget sites even claim their devices are efficient enough for a version that would run a car entirely on water—no gasoline at all.

    If this sounds like it's too good to be true, it is. And I've discussed it in this column too many times to go over again, so I won't. I've tested way too many bogus gas savers and miracle fuel-saving gadgets over the years to buy in to this one. So it's time to put up or shut up, and do what we do best around here—test drive, generate real-world numbers, and come up with realistic answers.

    So, last month I received an electrolyzer, fabricated by my old Monster Garage partner, Steve Rumore at Avalanche Engineering out in Colorado. Steve cleverly designed the device into a steel toolbox, making it portable—just the ticket for someone tinkering with HHO/water/hydrogen/Brown's Gas­powered conveyances. Steve isn't a gadget geek—his company fabricates championship off-road vehicles. But he was talked into making a couple of HHO units by one of his customers. And why not? The plans are all over the Internet, and the tech isn't very complicated. The unit consists of eight plastic bottles with stainless-steel electrodes, connected up in series—parallel to the vehicle's battery. The cells are filled with plain ol' water and a small amount of potassium hydroxide electrolyte to conduct electricity. A hose conveys the HHO output to the engine.

    It took me a few days of puttering around in my shop to get the electrolyzer up and running. I'm using an HKS Camp 2 onboard computer, hooked into an LCD monitor that's suction-cupped to the windscreen, to check things like mass airflow, fuel-injector pulse width, battery voltage and, of course, fuel economy. The Camp 2 took a little debugging, but now I've got the whole science-fiction mess installed in one of our long-term test cars, complete with wires and hoses everywhere and a back-flash trap/flow meter bubbling away on the dash like Dr. Frankenstein's hookah. This fiendish device prevents any backfire-related explosion in the HHO line from propagating back into the electrolyzer. It also provides instant visual feedback of HHO delivery to the intake, as bubbles scurry from the bottom to the top of the water column. Yes, I have it mounted inside the car.

    But guess what? My fuel economy is exactly the same, whether the HHO generator is turned on or not. And that's exactly what I expected. This isn't anecdotal evidence from several tankfuls of gasoline. It's steady-state, flat-road testing, and I don't even pretend to have actual economy numbers. I'm using fuel-injector pulse widths directly from the OBD II port. That means I'm measuring the actual time the injectors are open and delivering fuel. When the HHO generator is toggled on, there's no change. And when it's turned back off, there's no change. Well, the computer's system voltage sags a couple of tenths of a volt, indicating the current drain to run the electrolyzer.

    Before you HHO proponents start bombarding me with hate mail, chill. You may have some amazing anecdotal evidence that these systems work. But I'm not swayed by over-the-road proof unless the conditions are constant—the variables are too, well, variable. And that includes my own testing. There's too much noise in the data collection, statistically speaking, and quite a bit of room for experimenter bias. From considerable experience with other gas savers, I know even the subtlest change in driving habits can influence the results. I won't be convinced of any fuel savings until I see results on a dynamometer, where I can control everything except the HHO.

    I spent a good hour on the phone yesterday with Fran Giroux of hydrogen-boost.com. He tells me that the HHO injection is only an enabler for other devices and changes. The fuel savings doesn't come from the energy contained in the hydrogen as it's burned, which is what I've asserted all along was implausible. Giroux sells a system of modifications that disables the engine management's computer and makes the engine run extremely lean—as lean as 20:1. That's far from the normal 14.7:1. The hydrogen is necessary to let the ultralean mix burn completely, he claims. There's also a heater for the fuel to promote complete vaporization, and some additives for the fuel and oil to complete his system.

    Interesting? Why, yes. But there's a catch.

    These mods come under the category of tampering with a federally-mandated emissions control system, making it impossible to pass the underhood visual inspection component of many state smog inspections. To pass this underhood check, no part of the emissions control system can appear to have been modified or disabled. Add in the OBD II pass-fail to the smog check, and odds are these modifications will keep you from getting a smog sticker. That means you might have to disable—and perhaps remove—the system to pass the annual test. Just don't get caught in between.

    I had another long talk yesterday with Steve Rumore, my off-road buddy turned HHO donater. He's experimenting with several vehicles, and actually getting some consistent results—fuel-economy improvements to the tune of 10 to 12 percent on diesel trucks pulling trailers. He's tinkering with some of the same things Giroux is suggesting. We're looking into ways to refine both his and my experimental methods. But I'm convinced there's a lot of placebo effect. I also think that these mods may be increasing fuel economy independently of the HHO injection. So stay tuned, because we're still testing. Once we get some more data onboard, we'll be dyno testing.

  7. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    29,354
    #47
    MODERATOR's NOTE: neo-socket discussion posts moved to:

    http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60269

    Have a nice day.

  8. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    994
    #48
    I was a victim of the UNIQUE Gas Saver device

    Here's my story ...

    It happened 3 years ago at a Unique stall in MG Infiniti (not so sure about the store's name but it's in the right wing going to Annex), SM North. I purchased their device which looks like the CHAOS in every aspect, only half the price. I was tempted to avail it. I had it installed in my Maxima. The result: white smoke coming out off the exhaust, the idling was erratic, and the consumption was the opposite of what they claimed it to be.

    There was a 10-day money back guarantee. So, kinabukasan, I went back to return the device. But they were persistent and insisted that they can make it work. For 30 minutes, they worked on my engine at the carpark. As expected, hindi nila napatino. They had no choice but to give my money back.

    The sad part was I had to bring my Maxima to the shop for a top overhaul. Too much air was sucked in by the device and all hell break loose in the engine.

    Then came my revenge!

    Their stall at SM lasted for just another month. So they relocated at CARZONE, Banawe cor Del Monte (the shop relocated already opposite Chinatown's Best). With the same crew, nagulat sila nang makita ako na nagpapagawa dun. Malas lang nila at kakilala ko yung may-ari ng shop. Kaya siniraan ko sila. Bwahahahaaa!

    Lesson: kung gustong makatipid, gawin ang mga sumusunod:
    1. properly maintain your car;
    2. avoid excess baggage;
    3. don't do a jack-rabbit start;
    4. avoid sudden stops;
    5. plan your route.


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