Biodiesel Rulez!!! [ARCHIVED]

**jaeger** · September 15th, 2005 04:43 PM

Biodiesel users, I need some advise.

I plan to get BD in bulk for all our needs. I live in a 3-house compound with my in-laws tribe and with a total of 17 cars/SUV’s of which 9 are diesels. They have regularly seen me loading Senbel on my 3 diesel rides and due to my driver’s heavy bragging on the clean exhaust and the smooth throttle response he experiences, now all of them want me to supervise the introduction of BD to all their diesel rides. (****!, what did I get myself into – with my in-laws pa naman?)

I plan to get a small stainless steel tank (like BESTANK maybe 100 li. capacity?) with a bottom drain (to drain out dirt and water contaminants) and a lower side drain (to dispense BD) where I will attach a simple flow meter so we can regulate the amount of BD coming out. I anticipate it's such a hassle to be loading from carbouys regularly.

Given this setup,

: Are the any fuel storage pointers/tips peculiar to BD that I should be aware of? (assuming it takes a couple of months before we consume all the BD in the Bestank)
: What do I have to do or anticipate to avoid contamination?
: Dapat ba air-tight yung holding tank (I will only open air bleed hole when dispensing BD)? (lalo na rainy season when moisture content of air is high and condensation will likely form inside the walls of the Bestank)
: Do I have to put a fuel filter somewhere (for the CRDI rides)? If yes, will there be any difference if I filter the BD before loading into the Bestank or filter after the Bestank before loading to ride? or better both? (pag may filter, do I have to pressurize the system - if yes, hassle, I won't filter and just make a crude sedimentor or something).

I’ve been using BD only since last June and everytime I open the 1-liter Senbel bottle, there’s always some fine dirt residue at the bottom.

Any advice is most appreciated.
(or I can fire my driver and forget all about this)

Mga BD dealers: may bulk discount ba if I order 100 liters at a time?

**larshell** · September 15th, 2005 05:15 PM

*jaeger, Hustle yata yan?I sugest magbenta kana din para naman hindi sayang ang pagod mo but overhead tank for any kind of fuel is not allowed by the DENR and DOE it should be under the ground it is very unsafe for you and your family lalo na sa INLAWS mo.Believe me it is very UNSAFE diesel fuel maynot be as flamable as gas fuel but it is still FLAMABLE and Pag may apoy na hindi kaya ng tubig kelangan mo Dry Chemical fire extinguisher. WAG nalang Bro.

**jaeger** · September 16th, 2005 12:09 PM

Thanks for the advice larshell. The safety issue was at the back of my head all these time while figuring out how to do the BD holding tank (even thoguh it's just a small tank, it's still a fire hazard).

The safety issue will come out pretty much the same if say, I store 10 carbouys at a time. I have to figure out a way to eliminate the risk of fire altogether in whatever form of storage I use, be it a tank or thru carbouys.

**larshell** · September 17th, 2005 11:46 AM

Even the carbouy put it in well ventilated area must stay away from direct heat of the sun. Isolate the carbouy specially those half full.

**cocojam** · September 18th, 2005 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by jaeger

Thanks for the advice larshell. The safety issue was at the back of my head all these time while figuring out how to do the BD holding tank (even thoguh it's just a small tank, it's still a fire hazard).

The safety issue will come out pretty much the same if say, I store 10 carbouys at a time. I have to figure out a way to eliminate the risk of fire altogether in whatever form of storage I use, be it a tank or thru carbouys.

Regarding the storage of BD. Just want to share this info so more will know:

The flash point of a fuel is defined as the lowest temperature at which the vapor above a combustible liquid can be made to ignite in air. Biodiesel’s flash
point is over 260° Fahrenheit, well above petroleum based diesel fuel’s flash point of around 125° Fahrenheit and even that of gasoline which is less the 100F.

Testing has shown the flash point of biodiesel blends increases as the percentage of biodiesel increases. Therefore, biodiesel and blends of
biodiesel with petroleum diesel are safer to store, handle, and use than conventional diesel and gasoline fuel. You can even leave your carbuoy under the burning heat of the sun and it wont explode. If you dont believe this, try throwing a lighted match on a can filled with BD and see if it will explode or even ignite. Do the same thing with diesel or even gasoline just to compare. To see is to believe.

Another thing, BD has a limited shelf life of around 6 months given that its plant-based or a fuel that originated from vegetable oil. Given this, immediate usage of BD is adviced.

**larshell** · September 18th, 2005 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by cocojam

Regarding the storage of BD. Just want to share this info so more will know:

try throwing a lighted match on a can filled with BD and see if it will explode or even ignite. Do the same thing with diesel or even gasoline just to compare. To see is to believe.

Syempre if you throw a lighted match mamatay yan ang liquid yon coco diesel lalo if the container is full yon spillage ang delekado.why dont you try throwing a lighted match on a half full container exposed under the heat of sun for several hours and see what hapen.

**altec** · September 18th, 2005 06:19 PM

cocojam,

What happens if you premix CME into large diesel tanks like refueling stations? When the storage tanks levels are low, they refuel with diesel, of which you mix BD again. Since there is premix already in the tanks (both in the refueling stations and the car's fuel tank that is already into BD), would this BD eventually cause increased water in the fuel system coming from BD's shelf life issues?

**czar_ethan** · September 19th, 2005 10:36 AM

What is the recommended amount of Biodiesel for those newly acquired or bought diesel machines? (say, Innova with 55 liters)?

Is biodiesel really safe for those new engines?

**cocojam** · September 21st, 2005 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by altec

cocojam,

What happens if you premix CME into large diesel tanks like refueling stations? When the storage tanks levels are low, they refuel with diesel, of which you mix BD again. Since there is premix already in the tanks (both in the refueling stations and the car's fuel tank that is already into BD), would this BD eventually cause increased water in the fuel system coming from BD's shelf life issues?

Sorry bro for the late reply. As far as I know and based on our experience in the plant before, storing BD in stainless steel tanks and even plastic tanks under the heat of the sun will not cause any moisture or water build-up that will contaminate your BD. The CME itself has water but very minimal and as long as this is maintained within the allowable limits (based on DOE and international BD standards), there should be no problem using this. As to the shelf life of BD, I dont think that water content will increase. We havent tested BD aged more than 6 months as to deterioration in cetane, solvency, lubricity qualities, etc. thats why I cant provide you any info on this. We are just basing it on experience with other BD abroad.

**cocojam** · September 21st, 2005 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by czar_ethan

What is the recommended amount of Biodiesel for those newly acquired or bought diesel machines? (say, Innova with 55 liters)?

Is biodiesel really safe for those new engines?

Since your car is brand new, I would take the more conservative stand of just maintaining a 5%/95% BD/diesel mix. Im basing this on the world wide fuel charter (search it sa net na lang) wherein automotive manufacturers have certified that up to a 5% mix of BD in diesel is safe and usage up to this point will not void your engine warranty.