Auto-LPG Conversion Thread

[chuaed]

yes, its the standard NAIADSS LPG kit. The switch is located on the L.E.D. LPG level meter.

Switching from gasoline to LPG (and vice versa) requires you to turn off the engine before starting on the alternate fuel.

you don't have to turn off the engine inorder to switch between gas and petrol vise versa... usually when the engine is cold i use petrol when starting the engine then after a couple of minutes i switch to gas, i just step on the accelerator just a little then i switch from petrol to gas...

minsan tumatakbo kotse ko dahil curious at walang magawa, natry ko i switch from gas to petrol vise versa...

try mo... LPG :seesaw: PETROL

[ghosthunter]

i'm considering having my Benz installed with a LPG kit... ang problema ko lang is where do i fill up with LPG? i'm from sta. mesa and yung mga gas stations dito wala pa akong nakikita na LPG refilling.

GH kaya ba nila for in-line 6, carb engine? magkano inabot yung sa corolla mo?

carb engines are no problems with their conversion kit.

carb system (usually taxi use) = P24K
1.6 efi = P28K
1.8L to 2.4L efi = P31K

Along araneta ave near the bowling place at araneta/quezon ave, there is a LPG refilling station (near Shell). It's Manila Gas, I think. They don't do conversions though so you will need to go to NAIADSS or another company to do the actual conversion.

[artpogi]

Ghost,

yun ba mga naka LPG fuel system na, pwede din ba ibalik sa original (gasoline only) kung sakaling ayaw ko na ng LPG?

thanks

[ghosthunter]

Just got back from Auto-Xer...

We tried adjusting two parameters (one at a time).

First was the A/F. Using Ferman's air-fuel electronic meter, the initial reading was roughly 9.4 and the ideal was 15.5 to 1. The knob to the LPG mixer was adjusted to read 12 to 1 just for testing. Reving the engine resulting in very lean a/f at higher rpms. We ran the car on the road and the result was no power from the engine even at lower rpms. We incremented the a/f down to the original setting in a few more tests.

Next was the ignition timing. Since the guys at NAIADSS did not adjust the timing, it's assumed the base ignition timing was at 10 degrees. The base ignition timing was adjusted to 15 degrees (which is the maximum adjustment for my engine). Removing the jumper from the ECU, the ecu was free to adjust the timing to it's "ideal". After a test drive, the current ignition timing is somewhere between 20 & 21 degrees advance. At this setting, the car felt pretty much the same as with gasoline.

I also did some minor gasoline run test after my visit at Ferman's shop with the current ignition timing setting (I assume the engine ecu does compensate the timings). The car runs well on gasoline so I can switch between fuels with no problems at the current ignition timing setting.

Conclusion: You might want to adjust your engine ignition timing to get better engine performance & efficiency by 10 degrees of advance.

Some notes:

Ferman did note that the NAIADSS LPG system is a primitive carburator system with no feedback system to adjust for higher throttle & engine loads. This results in poor performance at higher RPM (and very lean a/f values as well). He did think it's possible to retrofit a system to compensate but that will result in added costs (about the same as the LPG kit) but will give the same engine performance in LPG and gasoline.

My current LPG a/f setting is back at 9.4 - 9.5 ... that is pretty rich but gives the best drivability under load. Given we do not want to blindly adjust the LPG vaporizer settings, that is the best for now. If we can get our hands on some instructions or diagrams for the vaporizer, we might try again in the future.

[ghosthunter]

Ghost,

yun ba mga naka LPG fuel system na, pwede din ba ibalik sa original (gasoline only) kung sakaling ayaw ko na ng LPG?

thanks

assuming you are not talking about a product refund/return...

Yes, you can simply switch the engine to run either on LPG or gasoline.

You can also have the LPG conversion kit removed BUT the holes drilled to mount the LPG tank and filler valve will need some body repair work if you want those to be covered up.

[topgun]

any SUVs on LPG? i would like to see where they placed the tanks especially the CRV generation 2s

[Skywalker]

Gasoline (Petron Blaze) 57 liters x 45.70 pesos = 2,604.90 fulltank
fuel consumption approx = 8 kilometers/liter (city driving)

Lp Gas (Petron Xtend) 57 liters x 24.80 pesos = 1,413.60 fulltank
fuel consumption approx = 6 kilometers/liter (city driving)

takaw talaga ng chevy optra :car:

Thanks for your input.

So in your case, for petrol:
57L x 8KPL = 456Km
2,604.90 Pesos / 456Km = 5.71 Pesos/Km

For LPG,
57L x 6PKL = 342Km
1,413.60 Pesos / 342Km = 4.13 Pesos/Km.

That was approximately 27.67% savings.

If I decided for the LPG conversion, my ROI will be 1.5 years assuming the prices doesn't change. Hmmmmm.......

[ghosthunter]

any SUVs on LPG? i would like to see where they placed the tanks especially the CRV generation 2s

I saw a CRV gen1 with the 60L tank at the rear cargo area.

[artpogi]

You can also have the LPG conversion kit removed BUT the holes drilled to mount the LPG tank and filler valve will need some body repair work if you want those to be covered up.

this is what I wanted to know, thanks a lot GH.

[niky]

So, advice, GH... what do you think about us guys with direct ignition timing (non-distributor)? Should we just wait for a fuel injection model? Or should we spend the extra for a piggyback controller?

[ghosthunter]

So, advice, GH... what do you think about us guys with direct ignition timing (non-distributor)? Should we just wait for a fuel injection model? Or should we spend the extra for a piggyback controller?

From what I have seen, distributor less cars can run on LPG especially if the ECU can adjust the ignition timing. My 1999 corolla's mechanical timing is 15 degrees but it self-adjusted to 20-21 degrees after the ECU's jumper was removed. Even older cars like the 1993 Sentra 1.6L ECCS can self-adjust it's ignition timing according to it's fuzzy logic.

BTW, the currently available LPG kits are EFI compatible. Its just not that high-tech (probably to lower the selling price).

For the best performance, you can't beat a full blown LPG conversion which will give the exact same performance with LPG and gasoline. Spending for a piggyback controller will cost a lot and might not save you money, even with the price differential of LPG vs gasoline.

With the current LPG conversion kits available, it does save you money on fuel costs but it does compromise top end performance of your engine. Your choice, spend more money on rising gasoline prices or start saving money by using LPG with slightly reduced engine performance. Anyway, if you want performance, you can always switch back to gasoline at the flick of a switch.

[RedHorse]

i'm considering having my Benz installed with a LPG kit... ang problema ko lang is where do i fill up with LPG? i'm from sta. mesa and yung mga gas stations dito wala pa akong nakikita na LPG refilling.

GH kaya ba nila for in-line 6, carb engine? magkano inabot yung sa corolla mo?

meron dyan sa araneta.. right side. between e.rod and qa, mahaba nga lang ang pila, mostly taxi.... iisa lang kasi dispenser

[niky]

With the current LPG conversion kits available, it does save you money on fuel costs but it does compromise top end performance of your engine. Your choice, spend more money on rising gasoline prices or start saving money by using LPG with slightly reduced engine performance. Anyway, if you want performance, you can always switch back to gasoline at the flick of a switch.

Hmmm... I'll see, then. Am of half-a-mind to install it, but I have a big problem with the current warranty (5 years! Curses!) and the fact that I always have a full trunk when I travel (long distance pa yan, can't live without a spare). Oh well, I'm still going to pilot this on my pickup anyway. Congrats pala, on finally getting your conversion.

[ghosthunter]

Hmmm... I'll see, then. Am of half-a-mind to install it, but I have a big problem with the current warranty (5 years! Curses!)

so how long do you have until your factory warranty expires?

... and the fact that I always have a full trunk when I travel (long distance pa yan, can't live without a spare).

Actually I still have my full sized spare tire in my trunk. No problem removing and returning it with the LPG in place. Some have replaced their spare tire with donuts to save weight though.

BTW, you can have two fuel tanks full of gasoline & LPG. It might be heavy but you can double your unrefueled range.

Oh well, I'm still going to pilot this on my pickup anyway.

good luck, I assume the tank will be in the flatbed.

Congrats pala, on finally getting your conversion.

Thanks!

[niky]

RE: Warranty: 3 years or 60,000 kms. Whichever comes first. But since I have headers already, the applicability of the warranty is dubious.

My problem is that full-trunk means full trunk. The space where they usually mount the tank is where the baby crib goes... , and even if I can find a donut tank, I'm not willing to go spareless.

RE: Pickup, since the spare tire is small (135-70-13), I put it behind the driver's seat (two seater lang, eh)... I can put the tank under the car in the spare tire cradle.

[ghosthunter]

you don't have to turn off the engine inorder to switch between gas and petrol vise versa... usually when the engine is cold i use petrol when starting the engine then after a couple of minutes i switch to gas, i just step on the accelerator just a little then i switch from petrol to gas...

minsan tumatakbo kotse ko dahil curious at walang magawa, natry ko i switch from gas to petrol vise versa...

try mo... LPG :seesaw: PETROL

I tried it (LPG to Gasoline) and resulted in a rough running engine. It could barely idle. Shutting down the engine and restarting it got it running smooth again.

[ghosthunter]

RE: Warranty: 3 years or 60,000 kms. Whichever comes first. But since I have headers already, the applicability of the warranty is dubious.

In my book, that's already a void warranty right there.

My problem is that full-trunk means full trunk. The space where they usually mount the tank is where the baby crib goes... , and even if I can find a donut tank, I'm not willing to go spareless.

maybe when your baby is a bit older and doesn't need the crib anymore. And cross your fingers that you can still afford to fuel up on gasoline.

RE: Pickup, since the spare tire is small (135-70-13), I put it behind the driver's seat (two seater lang, eh)... I can put the tank under the car in the spare tire cradle.

I don't think they will let you install the tank under the vehicle since there is a meter attached to the side of the tank. It might be prone to damage if it's under the vehicle.

[niky]

Ok, will keep that in mind.

Don't worry, I can still afford fuel. It's baby food (over 700 bucks per can) that's killing me.

[Auto_Xer]

I tried it (LPG to Gasoline) and resulted in a rough running engine. It could barely idle. Shutting down the engine and restarting it got it running smooth again.

Try revving the engine as you do the switchover or just before you do the switchover from LPG to gas.

[mazdamazda]

anybody who has a complete list of NAIADSS refilling stations? am really interested in this!