Auto-LPG Conversion Thread

[glennjv]

It's my first time posting in this forum.
My Dad told me to research about LPG Conversion and I stumbled upon this site when a LPG convert posted the links in tipidpc.com. (This was just last week)

This is actually the first forum my dad (in his late 50's) actually read and got him interested in it. This thread actually persuaded him to go ahead with the LPG conversion in a matter of days.

We had his '96 Camry 2.2L 4Cyl converted last tuesday and picked up this afternoon. We got a chance to meet with Mike of GreenFuel. The O2 sensor wasn't installed as per Mike's recommendation and that my dad should observe it first and see how it goes. Good thing GreenFuel decided to take on the job of this specific Camry model because according to Mike the installation/drilling was a tough one.

We told Mike that we're also planning on having my Mazda 3 1.6S converted as well if the camry produces good results.

I'm thinking of having a cylindrical tank 60L installed since my line of thinking is that in case of a rear collision there will be more crumple zone before it hits the tank. I also get to refuel less to since it holds more fuel.
Would this be wise?
Or a toroidal tank be a wiser move? I was thinking the toroidal tank when hit from the rear will puncture more easily because of the donut shape..
It also as fuel capacity means I need to refuel a lot more often.

Mike also mentioned the CEL problem the Mazda 3 was known for. Is this a regular occurence? or a twice a year thing?
He mentioned it happens when it gets lean?
Can this be reset by a normal user? or only shops with computers?

what does that mean? when my lpg gas is almost empty or if I rev too much? (I drive relatively slow 80 to 100kph tops)

Sir GH, I think I saw a thread that you had a Mazda 3 converted. How's the FC? I'm ok in losing 10% in FC. I usually get 10km/L from alabang to pioneer.

I'm having 2nd thoughts because of the "kapihikan" of my Mazda 3 because of the CEL mike mentioned.

(I've read around this thread jumping around since this thread started years ago)

[ghosthunter]

It's my first time posting in this forum.
My Dad told me to research about LPG Conversion and I stumbled upon this site when a LPG convert posted the links in tipidpc.com. (This was just last week)

People should post links to the tsikot.com Auto-LPG thread in other sites outside tsikot.com so those interested can find it easier. So far this is the most comprehensive auto-lpg discussion in the country.

This is actually the first forum my dad (in his late 50's) actually read and got him interested in it. This thread actually persuaded him to go ahead with the LPG conversion in a matter of days.

Hmmm, I guess if he found the Camry conversion thread, he would jumped at it immediately?

I'm thinking of having a cylindrical tank 60L installed since my line of thinking is that in case of a rear collision there will be more crumple zone before it hits the tank. And I get to refuel less to since it hold more fuel.
Would this be wise?

Or a torodial tank be a wiser move? I was thinking the torodial tank when hit from the rear will puncture more easily because of the donut shape..
And lesser fuel capacity means I need to refuel a lot more often.

In cases of vehicular collision, either tank will crumple and NOT rupture if the forces of collision would reach the tank.

Generally I would suggest the torrodial tank because that will give you more trunk space, especially if you need to carry bulky cargo items since the Mazda3 trunk isn't as big as other cars.

The cylindrical tank does have a good aspect. The remaining fuel inside will concentrate together in the middle and you can drive near-empty more confidently than with the torrodial tank because the fuel will slosh around more and it would be harder to suck up the last few of liters of LPG from that type of tank.

As for refueling more often, it's more of a function of the either tank's capacity. So if you got a 60L torrodial tank, it would hold as much fuel as a 60L cylindrical tank.

Mike also mentioned the CEL problem the Mazda 3 was known for. Is this a regular occurence? or a twice a year thing?

More like once a month to once every other month thing based on the driver.

He mentioned it happens when it gets lean?
Can this be reset by a normal user? or only shops with computers?

Actual cause isn't yet nailed down. But you can reset the CEL light simply by removing the battery cable for a minute to reset the car's ECU.

what does that mean? when my lpg gas is almost empty or if I rev too much? (I drive relatively slow 80 to 100kph tops)

As mentioned above... actual trigger is not certain. We've brought the Mazda3 to Speedlab for some fine tuning. Ferman of Speedlab got the car to run smoother but the CEL light still does trigger about once a month.

How's the FC? I'm ok in losing 10$ in FC. I usually get 10km/L from alabang to pioneer.

FC is about 10% less than gasoline in our car but I think you can get better FC figures with your highway driving.

I'm having 2nd thoughts because of the "kapihikan" of my Mazda 3 because of the CEL mike mentioned.

Based on what some Mazda people said, it might be the overly sensitive factory ECU that is triggering the CEL warning light. What I think, LPG ecu might be giving a "hiccup" resulting in either an over-rich or over-lean condition momentarily. Its either that or the lubrication cycle might be the root of the problem (over-rich condition).

Kinda hard to diagnose the problem because our Mazda3 is a busy vehicle so downtime for it is hard to schedule.

[vinj]

Anyone here using Iridium plug? Any feedback

Malakas mag-foul up ang plugs ko during long idling, and I have red in Denso website that LPG fueled cars on long idling can cause plug fouling. And Denso is recommending Iridium plug.

Fouled plugs due to long idling? That's something a couple of redline upshifts can cure. "Italian Tune-up".

[ghosthunter]

Malakas mag-foul up ang plugs ko during long idling, and I have red in Denso website that LPG fueled cars on long idling can cause plug fouling. And Denso is recommending Iridium plug.

Have you tried using hotter rated sparkplugs than what you already have in your engine? Since your driving style sees more idling, your current sparkplugs might be too "cold" which results in fouling.

Regular hotter sparkplugs are cheaper than special iridium sparkplugs anyway.

Note to other auto-lpg users: sometimes other cars run better with colder sparkplugs. It plainly depends on the engine and your driving style/habits.

[Mile2]

Have you tried using hotter rated sparkplugs than what you already have in your engine? Since your driving style sees more idling, your current sparkplugs might be too "cold" which results in fouling.

Regular hotter sparkplugs are cheaper than special iridium sparkplugs anyway.

Note to other auto-lpg users: sometimes other cars run better with colder sparkplugs. It plainly depends on the engine and your driving style/habits.

It's not more of the long idling I guess, when I drove to airport at high speed last Tuesday, real hard fouling came day after it so it must be a colder spark plug to be use.

Bad thing is when I called up Denso distrubutor they would not have the colder plug this month. I'm force now to use their one grade colder Iridium. P600 x 4

Innova (1TR-FE) and Fortuner (2TR-FE) uses long reach plugs even NGK and Bosch don't have much lineup for these kind of plugs.

[quan2boy]

Thanks to this thread. Very helpful. Gave me the courage to go LPG. Had my 2002 Camry 2.2 done last Saturday at Greenfuel. Medyo may konting problems pa which I hope to fix in due course.

1. Engine check indicator lights up. I'll bring to Toyota for checkup.
2. Initially, power is almost same as gasoline but after a while (maybe 30 minutes of Edsa driving), car won't accelerate. I had to shift back to gasoline to get the power I need. I brought back to Greenfuel kanina and Ian made some adjustments (baka daw masyadong "lean"). It did improve a little pero kulang pa rin, i.e. after 30 minutes or so, medyo hirap pa rin mag-accelerate...

Thoughts?

[straker]

Quan2Boy,

Is your Camry using SGI?

Is the aircon on? Have you checked your air filters?

[aamd]

Thanks to this thread. Very helpful. Gave me the courage to go LPG. Had my 2002 Camry 2.2 done last Saturday at Greenfuel. Medyo may konting problems pa which I hope to fix in due course.

1. Engine check indicator lights up. I'll bring to Toyota for checkup.
2. Initially, power is almost same as gasoline but after a while (maybe 30 minutes of Edsa driving), car won't accelerate. I had to shift back to gasoline to get the power I need. I brought back to Greenfuel kanina and Ian made some adjustments (baka daw masyadong "lean"). It did improve a little pero kulang pa rin, i.e. after 30 minutes or so, medyo hirap pa rin mag-accelerate...

Thoughts?

Just to share.

if SGI yung kit mo then we have the same problem.


Car: 2004 mitsubishi outlander

Observations
1. Check engine lighted
2. after 30 minutes, medyo hirap umabante, kahit nakaflooring na yung gas pedal mabagal acceleration.
3. LPG fuel gauge nagloloko.

Will have it checked this coming monday afternoon.

[ezem]

Just to share.

if SGI yung kit mo then we have the same problem.


Car: 2004 mitsubishi outlander

Observations
1. Check engine lighted
2. after 30 minutes, medyo hirap umabante, kahit nakaflooring na yung gas pedal mabagal acceleration.
3. LPG fuel gauge nagloloko.

Will have it checked this coming monday afternoon.

dude, san ka nagpa convert? kasi ganyan dati ang prob ko sa adventure ko using EROOM's closed loop kit...almost all na mitsu na kino convert nila ayon kay bigfootoz e may CEL (check engine light) prob...pero naayos na ng EROOM yun ngayon, nag add pa ng isang emulator yata yun o ECU, ayun wala na, mas gumanda pa takbo...i think sakit ng mitsu talaga yan na kapag walang nasesense yung engine na walang lumalabas sa nozzle ng gasoline e umiilaw yung CEL...maganda i-coordinate ng installer mo yan sa MMC (mitsu motors) para ma-address...

__________________
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[ghosthunter]

1. Engine check indicator lights up. I'll bring to Toyota for checkup.
2. Initially, power is almost same as gasoline but after a while (maybe 30 minutes of Edsa driving), car won't accelerate. I had to shift back to gasoline to get the power I need. I brought back to Greenfuel kanina and Ian made some adjustments (baka daw masyadong "lean"). It did improve a little pero kulang pa rin, i.e. after 30 minutes or so, medyo hirap pa rin mag-accelerate...

Your options:
1. Bring to Speedlab for instrumented tuning.
2. Go back to Greenfuel for small adjustments.

[paolorenzo]

Ako naman baliktad. I use LPG 99% of the time now. I use gas for startups only (auto-switch function of EROOM), and for short distances every 2 weeks (1-way trip to office, 8kms). Yesterday was one of the days I used gas. Ang hirap mag-accelerate! Kailangan i-diin yung pedal para mag-respond, and sobrang gradual ang pag-accelerate. Barado na yata injectors at fuel filter ko. Probably stale gasoline as well.

Sarap kasi mag LPG eh. Hiyang na engine ko to LPG, so very responsive na siya to LPG. Mura pa gas bill ko! Woohoo!

[niky]

Ako naman baliktad. I use LPG 99% of the time now. I use gas for startups only (auto-switch function of EROOM), and for short distances every 2 weeks (1-way trip to office, 8kms). Yesterday was one of the days I used gas. Ang hirap mag-accelerate! Kailangan i-diin yung pedal para mag-respond, and sobrang gradual ang pag-accelerate. Barado na yata injectors at fuel filter ko. Probably stale gasoline as well.

Sarap kasi mag LPG eh. Hiyang na engine ko to LPG, so very responsive na siya to LPG. Mura pa gas bill ko! Woohoo!

Probably your gas injectors were a little gummy... you should use it on gas from time to time.

Greenfuel's system doesn't have this issue... the gasoline injectors pulse once every few minutes to stay clear.

-----


*qant2boy and aamd: The problem with hesitation is most likely your car's built in closed-loop control systems. These use the readouts of the O2 sensor to make adjustments to the air-fuel mixture at low rpms in order to ensure a 14.7:1 air-fuel ratio is maintained. This helps to keep your catalytic converters happy.

The problem is, stoichiometric ratio for LPG is slightly different from gas... so your LPG kit has to be tuned so that within closed-loop (below 3000 or 4000 rpm), the LPG injectors emulate the gasoline injectors closely enough that the engine won't notice the difference, throw a CEL and run differently.

On many cars, this isn't a problem. Just occassionally, the installers don't get the LPG emulation close enough to keep the ECU happy.

This is simple enough to correct with a wideband O2 sensor and some programming time... which Speedlab can provide. Otherwise, you can "clamp" the O2 sensor with a resistor so it won't be able to detect the difference. Still trying to find a source for the clamps (for another project... ), but you can ask Speedlab or other tuning shops about it.

[quan2boy]

Quan2Boy,

Is your Camry using SGI?

Is the aircon on? Have you checked your air filters?

Straker, yes my Camry has SGI installed. Aircon was on. I had new air filter and spark plugs installed per advice by Greenfuel (Ian).

[[JaNuS]]

was at green autogas earlier. was scheduled to have my car fitted but there was a problem. they said that i need to install my stock filter. my current one is with a carb adapter, tube then a cone filter. compression and other things checked out ok. so naghanap ako sa banawe ng surplus filter. mas mura pa ang saucer type na simota. kelangan po ba talaga yung stock na filter? what's the difference?

btw, cute si sharon. lalu na i have a thing w/ tsinitas w/ braces. haha.

[quan2boy]

dude, san ka nagpa convert? kasi ganyan dati ang prob ko sa adventure ko using EROOM's closed loop kit...almost all na mitsu na kino convert nila ayon kay bigfootoz e may CEL (check engine light) prob...pero naayos na ng EROOM yun ngayon, nag add pa ng isang emulator yata yun o ECU, ayun wala na, mas gumanda pa takbo...i think sakit ng mitsu talaga yan na kapag walang nasesense yung engine na walang lumalabas sa nozzle ng gasoline e umiilaw yung CEL...maganda i-coordinate ng installer mo yan sa MMC (mitsu motors) para ma-address...

__________________
passion for fashion? craving for savings?
visit MAI PASSION boutique at the fashion village * Tiendesitas

Hmmmm. This may be worth checking. Baka nga pag walang gasoline na nase-sense eh umiilaw yung CEL. That being said, paano nga pala yung fuel pump? Di kaya masisira yun kung walang fuel na hinihigop??

[quan2boy]

Your options:
1. Bring to Speedlab for instrumented tuning.
2. Go back to Greenfuel for small adjustments.

Thanks ghosthunter. I'll probably go to Speedlab on Monday for more precise tuning. Will let you guys know if they are able to fix my CEL and acceleration problem.

Cheers!

[quan2boy]

Greenfuel's system doesn't have this issue... the gasoline injectors pulse once every few minutes to stay clear.

Yes. I noticed this in Greenfuel's SGI. Every 15 minutes or so, the system switches to gasoline for 5 seconds or so. Minsan kasi pag nata-timing na nagloloko LPG ko (i.e. ayaw mag-accelerate no matter how I floor the gas pedal) tapos nag-switch sa gasoline, biglang harurot naman ako...5 seconds nga lang kasi pag balik sa LPG, kapos ulit power.

This is simple enough to correct with a wideband O2 sensor and some programming time... which Speedlab can provide. Otherwise, you can "clamp" the O2 sensor with a resistor so it won't be able to detect the difference. Still trying to find a source for the clamps (for another project... ), but you can ask Speedlab or other tuning shops about it.

Oo nga. I think I really need to pay Speedlab a visit...

[Mile2]

btw, cute si sharon. lalu na i have a thing w/ tsinitas w/ braces. haha.

hehehe

[ghosthunter]

btw, cute si sharon. lalu na i have a thing w/ tsinitas w/ braces. haha.

OT: She still single?

[glennjv]

So my Dad picked up his Camry 96 2.2L (no O2 sensor) at GreenFuel last thursday. Using the SGI with no O2 sensor since na recommend to observe muna daw the car.

The next day while driving along SLEX going to makati my parents the engined stalled. He was running on LPG. So he pulled over to the side and tried to restart the engine. It wouldn't respond. Then just about when he was going to go out, he tried it and it started.

He went back to GreenFuel supposedly to have the O2 sensor installed and hopefully the car performs better. It was just adjusted again with no O2 sensor installed.

On their way back home to alabang along SLEX again the car stalled again. =(
He was able to start it up again after a few minutes.

I was then able to test out the car. Starting it up on gas and then transistioning to LPG was fine. I couldn't even feel it. The acceleration to about 60kph was fine but I can feel I can't push it to accelerate like gasoline.

I then tried to run on gasoline. The weird thing is from idle the engine will start kinda like choke and feel the engine really having a very hard time. VERY ABNORMAL.

My dad then decided to fill up the gas with High Octane gasoline to lessen the Octane gap between the Gas and LPG. (Hunch niya) He's also planning to change spark plugs. His filter is pretty new so he said that can be it.

Here's my question. If the SGI is supposedly an ADD ON to the system then why did the car lose acceleration POWER running on Gasoline?
The A/F mixture for the gasoline wasn't tinkered with right? Only the A/F mixture for the LPG are being adjusted by technicians?

So my dad is hoping this gets fixed and he's actually willing to pay for the additional O2 sensor if it'll get this problem fixed.

I have some hesitation though that even if the O2 sensor is installed, the car will still have problems.