Auto-LPG Conversion Thread

[*TubbY*]

Since LPG is highly combustible, may I ask if it is safe to smoke in an LPG powered vehicle?

[diesoline]

it's as safe as smoking beside your lpg kitchen stove.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

i cannot say the same thing about the cigarette smoke that reaches your lungs though.

[ghosthunter]

Since LPG is highly combustible, may I ask if it is safe to smoke in an LPG powered vehicle?

Just as safe as smoking in your gasoline fueled car. Just for the record, gasoline is also highly flammable.

[xykosomatik]

hehehe your mythbusters sig got me thinking and reminiscing...

gasoline is highly flammable but not highly combustible compared to lpg. drop a lighted cigarette in a container or puddle of gasoline... pffft cigarette is drowned. (tested)

place a lighted cigarette within a lpg leak... uhmm dont have the guts to try it. but news reports abound when a lpg leak started a major fire because of a spark.

so, smoking in a lpg car. if there is a leak, well, the advantage of lpg is since it is a gas, it will dissipate quickly in the air, whereas in gasoline it will form a puddle. if the car is moving and there is air circulating in the space where the leak is happening, then the lpg concentration will be low enough not to cause an explosion. similar to ur stove when one ring is lighted but the other is not and you can smell gas. no explosion, right?

but if the car is standing still, the lpg concentration will probably be enough to cause an explosion if someone is smoking inside. however, i'm sure before it reaches that point the smoker would notice the increasing level of rotten egg stench and would instinctively put out his cigarette or be sickened enough that he will get out of the car.

just supposition.. anyone brave enough to confirm this?


gasoline-lpg debates are just like apple-epol debates. the important thing is, mas mura ang epol :D

[ghosthunter]

From:
http://www.lpga.co.uk/safe_handling.htm

Flammable concentrations is at 2% to 10% concentrations of LPG in air.

LPG odorant is detectable at 0.4% concentrations or at 1/5th of lower flammability limit.

Hence, if you can smell rotten eggs, best to vent the area to lower the concentration of LPG.

[ghosthunter]

I've been to this thread for a long time and I wanted to convert my CRV gen2 to LPG. .... My only problem is the price for the SGI kit. It is really BIG for me this time.. is there a company that accepts credit cards? because I dont think I can save up that much asap when prices of everything are getting high..

I think GREENFUEL might be able to accomodate you with 2 or 3 payment schemes. Give them a call (or txt).

[betz86]

I think GREENFUEL might be able to accomodate you with 2 or 3 payment schemes. Give them a call (or txt).

Alright! I will give them a call tom.. Thanks for the info. I can't wait for my car to be converted.

[bigMIKE]

Looks like your your (Ghosthunters) prediction of Php60/L is coming sooner than we expected. Oil prices hit another record US$134/barrel . Again what are you guys waiting for. (including yourself Ringostarr)
Peace

[chuaed]

saw on youtube, 3 cars to be torched at motoring industry engineering center MIRA.

a petrol car,
a properly converted LPG car, done by professional standard, and
a COWBOY JOB, the DANGEROUS LPG CONVERSION...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBXS21uh6lc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBXS21uh6lc[/ame]

Tests proving that a bad LPG conversion is not a good choice...

HOW WOULD WE KNOW IF OUR CAR IS PROFESSIONALY CONVERTED PROPERLY?


bad trip pa rin ako sa NAIADSS... sorry kung hindi lahat ng tao marunong at may panahon mag buting-ting ng sasakyan...

[ghosthunter]

Taken from:
http://seeknomore.blogspot.com/2007/...-business.html

[SIZE="6"]Auto-LPG Business[/SIZE]
July 19, 2007


Why LPG as Transport Fuel?

LPG is seen as a bridge to the future of the hydrogen economy but industry commentators suggest that whilst the technology of using hydrogen as a transport fuel is progressing rapidly, it will be at least 15 to 20 years before it is an economically viable option, especially if the source of hydrogen is to be renewable rather than generated from fossil fuels.

Meanwhile LPG is here now with by far the largest re-fuelling infrastructure of any of the alternative fuels and LPG vehicles continue to offer a viable economic alternative to petrol and diesel with added environmental benefits – especially in urban areas.

With the passage and implementation of the 1999 Clean Air Act imposing stringent vehicle emissions, some gas company believes that the use of LPG as transport fuel will increase, especially with mandatory rules and regulations supporting the law.

Aside from the requirements of the law, there are also significant advantages to be obtained by running on LPG. In 2003 the largest ever fuel comparison tests were undertaken on a pan-European basis which showed that the use of LPG results in:

* 20% saving in CO2 over petrol and is similar to diesel
* NOx was 1/20th compared with diesel
* Particulate matter was 1/120th of diesel vehicles


Current Market Situation

To date, there are 3,955 Auto-LPG vehicles nationwide. Privately owned and some government-owned vehicles have also converted to Auto-LPG. Auto-LPG dispensing stations have also flourished with twenty (20) service station-based, eleven (11) stand alone stations, five (5) refilling/bulk plant-based, five (5) garage-based, all located in Metro Manila.

In the Visayas, there are at least twenty (20) dispensing stations with seven (7) stand alone stations and thirteen (13) garage-based stations while eight (8) dispensing stations are located in Mindanao.

Conversion shops also flourished with nine (9) Auto-LPG conversion companies in fourteen (14) different locations in Metro Manila while more shops are expected to open in other parts of the country in the coming months.


Prospects

Use of LPG in the country grew by a substantial 27 percent during the first quarter mainly due to the government autogas or LPG vehicle program and the growth of independent oil firm suppliers.

According to SHV of Netherlands, which wholly owns Liquigaz Philippines Corp. (Liquigaz), it was in 2003 that the Philippines last hit its highest consumption of LPG at 1.150 million metric tons (MT). In 2006, LPG consumption was recorded at 971,000 MT (The Daily Tribune, 04 July 2007).

The projection on LPG volume consumption for 2007 must have been encouraging, which is why Liquigaz is planning to increase its overall market share in LPG currently at 25 percent placing it second biggest distributor of LPG. Shell is currently the leader in supplying LPG as fuel for vehicles; cornering at least 30 percent share in the market.

PETRON Corp. also announced in major dailies that it will put up additional refilling stations for autogas, for vehicles by the end of 2007 to service a growing number of taxi fleets nationwide.

According to Khalid al-Faddgh, Petron president and chief executive officer, the company will erect “at least five stations” for the rest of the year with the probability of setting up more, depending on market demand. They currently have seven (7) autogas stations (Manila Times, 03 August 2006).

Pilipinas Shell Petroleum Corporation (PSPC), boosted by it forecast of 10 percent demand growth for autogas or LPG for vehicles, already bared that it is currently exploring options to put up its own refilling stations.


Financial Viability

There is no available information yet for the public, but initial estimates from various sources reveal that putting up a refilling station is not cheap. Petron estimates that each refilling station will cost around P4 million to P5 million.

Moreover, Shell estimates that for a garage-based business to be viable, each facility will have to involve a minimum of 50 taxi units. According to Bernard Ong, Shell’s vice president for LPG business, this is the reason why many of their taxi fleet accounts have around minimum 200 units in their garages (MB Online, 22 March 2007).


Government Commitment

The Government has demonstrated its long term commitment to LPG.

Foremost, Department Circular No. DC2007-02-0002 strictly sets guidelines and standards to institute safety codes in the fast-growing industry

Before engaging in the Auto-LPG dispensing station business, DC No. DC2007-02-0002 requires the applicant to secure Standard Compliance Certificate (SCC) from the DOE upon submission of a set of documentary requirements. Such documentary requirements include among others, details of business activities, permits and licenses from government agencies such as the DENR, DTI-Bureau of Product Standards, DILG, Bureau of Fire Protection (BFP) and the concerned local government unit (LGU) prior to engagement, commencement of construction and operation of any Auto-LPG business. The Auto-LPG industry participant is considered engaged in illegal trading of LPG for automotive use if he/she operates without the SCC.

The Circular also requires LPG bulk suppliers and haulers to submit the list of its Auto-LPG buyers including its quarterly report of sales to buyers such as but not limited to taxi companies, garage-based clients and fleet operators while Auto-LPG dispensing stations are required to submit their quarterly sales and purchase volume.


Cost Savings

Industry estimates show that conversion to autogas will cost taxi operators at least P30,000 and this will be recovered in about two months due to expected fuel savings since autogas costs only half the price of gasoline. However, there are some cases where the cost is waived on the condition that the car will get their fill exclusively from the refilling station where the conversion was made.

Current published LPG prices show an average cost per liter of around P24-P25. Gasoline price is around the P37-P45 range, which is more volatile. On average this puts LPG vehicle users in a position to save over 56 percent on fuel cost compared with gasoline.

The use of LPG as vehicle fuel will also eliminate the need for costly fuel additives.


Environment and Engine-Friendly

Autogas has a simpler chemical make-up, which means its cleaner burning. And since it is already in gaseous form when it enters the combustion cylinder, it burns more efficiently than gasoline or diesel. Fewer deposits building in the car engine, so it will run smoother and last longer.

It is a mixture of hydrocarbons composed mainly of 60 to 70 percent propane and 40 to 30 percent butane. When it is pressurized, it becomes a liquid and it is in this form that it is pumped into the vehicle's fuel tank.

Autogas also has a robust fuel tank that is more resistant to impact damage than the ordinary car gas tank. The tank used in automotive LPG can withstand enormous impact forces without deforming, and every aspect of the fuel moving around your vehicle is protected by specific safety valves.

Current published LPG prices show an average cost per litre of around 45p which has risen very little over the last two years. However, petrol and diesel prices have been very volatile.


Illegal LPG Trading

According to former DOE Secretary Rafael Lotilla, the growing popularity of the Auto-LPG business has also spawned the growth of backyard industry like illegal LPG trading and services.

He emphasized that filling of household LPG cylinders in the Auto-LPG dispensing station is strictly prohibited. Violators will be penalized with a corresponding penalty or revocation of its Standard Compliance Certificate (SCC).

[tidus1203]

I am still waiting for the car companies to integrate LPG into their cars themselves as to have the protection of manufacturer's warranty...

[ghosthunter]

Tests proving that a bad LPG conversion is not a good choice...

HOW WOULD WE KNOW IF OUR CAR IS PROFESSIONALY CONVERTED PROPERLY?

Professional conversion shops would be certified by the DTI.

Moral of the video, if you are going to torch your own car, best to have the auto-LPG professionally installed. :D

Seriously, the biggest difference between the 2nd & 3rd car was probably the pressure relief valve which is an integral part of the gauge/multi-valve portion on the auto-LPG fuel tank. This valve keeps the internal pressure of the tank well below bursting pressure when the contents are subjected to extreme temperatures in a fire by releasing some of the contents in controlled spurts.

[ghosthunter]

I am still waiting for the car companies to integrate LPG into their cars themselves as to have the protection of manufacturer's warranty...

I think you will be in a very long wait.

The next best thing is to inquire with the car dealers if they have accredited auto-LPG installers. That way you still keep the car's original warranty intact. Example: Nissan United Nations has one while Nissan Shaw doesn't.

[toho]

Looks like your your (Ghosthunters) prediction of Php60/L is coming sooner than we expected. Oil prices hit another record US$134/barrel . Again what are you guys waiting for. (including yourself Ringostarr)
Peace

* bigMIKE, I've been browsing this thread since last week and find it very interesting. Nakaka-convince talaga pag sobra na ang taas ng gasoline. I have a casa (Viking Motors) maintained 10 yr old S40 1.8 w/ almost 70k kms odometer reading. What system do you recommend and why? How much will it cost? Where is your nearest shop if I am coming from Las Pinas City?

I notice your ride is also a Volvo. Would you mind sharing some info regarding your experience? This will greatly help in my decision making process. i.e. What type and model is your Volvo? Are you using an SGI system with it? How about fuel consumption? Are you still able to reset the Control and Service lights of your Volvo? Are there any conflict? After sales service?

To the experts, please forgive the many questions. I just have to be sure before I decide. Nararamdaman ko kasi yung frustration ni “chuaed’’. Correct me if I’m wrong but I suppose as one of the earlier adopters he has experienced the hassle of dealing with an unsupportive installer. Yung bang, “magaling lang sa umpisa, pero walang follow thru sa after sales service”.




TIA

[bigMIKE]

thank you for your inquiry.yes i am driving a volvo s90 3liter 6 cylinder engine. i am using a s.g.i. kit with a cylindrical tank of 70 liter. my mileage consumption is the same. what you save is the price per liter cost of lpg. with your vehicle we can use the same s.g.i.kit with the option of a donut tank or a cylindrical tank. the kit is from europe. our shop is at 433 r.pascual st. corner nueve de pebrero. we are at parallel of shaw blvd. near petron wack wack. my no.is 9942248.cell no. 09228231270. our kit at 4 cylinder is 39k. this include the tank. whichever you like.

[ghosthunter]

*Ringostarr aka Oldblue...

All you are doing is complaining for the sake of complaining.

So unless your future posts in this thread is related to auto-LPG, it will be removed to minimize the pollution in this thread. I think I have humored you enough with my replies to your pointless complaints.

[toho]

thank you for your inquiry.yes i am driving a volvo s90 3liter 6 cylinder engine. i am using a s.g.i. kit with a cylindrical tank of 70 liter. my mileage consumption is the same. what you save is the price per liter cost of lpg. with your vehicle we can use the same s.g.i.kit with the option of a donut tank or a cylindrical tank. the kit is from europe. our shop is at 433 r.pascual st. corner nueve de pebrero. we are at parallel of shaw blvd. near petron wack wack. my no.is 9942248.cell no. 09228231270. our kit at 4 cylinder is 39k. this include the tank. whichever you like.

Thanks for your quick reply. Are you still able to reset the Control and Service lights of your Volvo? Are there any conflict? How about maintenance, is there anything I should know?

I hope I can get more feedback from other Volvo owners out there who has converted & used this system. This forum is a jewel for people like me who are seriously contemplating using auto-LPG.

[eikichi]

Sir GH, pwede malaman ilan liters yung tank mo? Saw the pix of your trunk somewhere in this thread. Also do you have a pix of the hose where LPG is refilled?

I went to Greenfuel before and checked out the toroidal tanks they have. Mukhang maganda talaga yun quality ng tanks nila. Been thinking of getting one installed. Do you have payment terms for your kits sir Mike?

[ghosthunter]

Sir GH, pwede malaman ilan liters yung tank mo? Saw the pix of your trunk somewhere in this thread. Also do you have a pix of the hose where LPG is refilled?

60 liters.

No pics of the filler valve.

[ghosthunter]

moderator's note:

if you are looking for Ringostarr's posts and replies on his personal views & opinions on the evils & dangers of auto-lpg, I have moved them to a separate thread:

http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showt...=1#post1078677