Auto-LPG Conversion Thread

[jov78ph]

I was caught unaware with the recent price increase. Grabe! The last two increases ganun din di ako nakapag-refill. Pero ok lang this time kasi nga, I had my CRV with LPG. Im impress kasi can't notice much on the change from petrol to LPG. Good thing I decided as quick as possible and did not even notice that BigMike will be coming back on the 16th of this Month. Lucky enough that when I arrived sa shop he was already there. Buti na lang mga 7 hours the installation including test drive and calibration. I heard from GH 2 days daw.

Any ways, since the price of fuel is inevitable medyo makaka-relax ako to use the CRV instead of my spacewagon even that naka-LPG din. In fact I have save a lot already from the gas increase since July of 2006 when I toyed the idea of using LPG in my spacewagon. Two more cars I have to convert para naman di mabigat sa budget ng mga anak kong using the cars.

With the announcement that the Gas Company has to cover, the more you guys have to think wisely in getting big savings in using your vehicles. What ever investment you make in your cars through the LPG, the returns will come to you in huge savings. In the case of my CRV, I have risked the 2 more years for the warranty. Para sa akin must immediate yung ma-save than the warranty itself.

Think about it.

[ghosthunter]

This is getting bad... I found myself toying with the idea of converting my project car (Sentra B14 w/ SR20) to auto-LPG as well (SGI-LPG kit with donut tank to maintain power either on LPG or petrol).

[jov78ph]

What are you waiting for? Go ahead! You know as well as I do that you will never regret it. Is it till June or July that this Companies will be raising their prices? The higher the price of petrol, the shorter the ROI on the conversion. We got nothing to loose but for to gain and we need not sacrifice our passion in riding and driving our own car to places we wanted to go. Needless to say we don't need to join the mass of people commuting and be expose to the harsh air we breath because of the smoke belching public transport.

[ghosthunter]

... You know as well as I do that you will never regret it. Is it till June or July that this Companies will be raising their prices? ...

From what I remember in the news, oil companies will continue their P1/week increase until end of June 2008.

[tidus1203]

Unfortunately for most people (besides the environmentalists) their pockets are still more important than the environment. If we stop burning fuel , the economy will stop to a halt and all of us will suffer. People will lose jobs, businesses will close. So dapat may balance. The answer might be Honda's FCX Clarity where the fuel is hydrogen cells and the emissions are H2O. But then again, its not economical since the car is so expensive and the infrastructure for hydrogen pumps are not yet existent.

[ghosthunter]

In closing, fear and closed mindedness will always be a hindrance to progress and develpment. And Necessity is the mother of all invention.

Don't give Ringostarr much mind because he also claims he singlehandedly caused the price of LCD and plasma TVs to go radically down and a few other things as well. Credibility is NOT his highpoint.

It would just be bad if someone else gets to believe his mis-information.

[bigMIKE]

Don't give Ringostarr much mind because he also claims he singlehandedly caused the price of LCD and plasma TVs to go radically down and a few other things as well. Credibility is NOT his highpoint.

It would just be bad if someone else gets to believe his mis-information.

I really do not mind such imbecile comments. However I do hope he comes up with a stronger case against auto-lpg if he wants to destroy auto-lpg's role as a viable alternative fuel.

Well if he can claim that he singlehandedly cause the price of lcd and plasma tv to go down then why can't he all do us a favor and try to force the oil companies to bring the prices of fuel down. (We will even give him our all out support on this endeavor)

[ezem]

amen to bigmike and ghosthunter!

[mcgrath]

Sir Ghosthunter and Big Mike,

I have a CRV and would like to convert to LPG but I still few questions if you don't mind:

1. Pwede ba sa automatic na 2002 CRV?
2. Regarding health hazards of leaking LPG. do you guys have a study na its not harmful. My wife is pregnant kasi and don't want' to sacrifice her health just to save gas money.
3. How many days is the installation?
4. By far, who is the best installer here in manila for the CRV?
5. Can I still retain the back row seats after installing the donut type LPG tank?

Hope you can answer all my queries, thanks in advance

[ghosthunter]

Sir Ghosthunter and Big Mike,

I have a CRV and would like to convert to LPG but I still few questions if you don't mind:

do I have a choice? (joke lang ha!)

1. Pwede ba sa automatic na 2002 CRV?

yes... transmission type doesn't matter. 2nd Gen CR-V can have a donut type tank installed under the rear cargo flooring.

2. Regarding health hazards of leaking LPG. do you guys have a study na its not harmful. My wife is pregnant kasi and don't want' to sacrifice her health just to save gas money.

Unless you are letting her inhale directly from the exhaust pipe or from an LPG tank, LPG is completely safe. The fact that we cook our food with LPG in our home for decades would state how safe LPG is as a fuel.

Also auto-LPG systems have a passive safety system where any leaked LPG is vented out under the car via a vent tube. The vented LPG is then dissipated into the surrounding area to prevent harmful concentrations from happening.

3. How many days is the installation?

two days (1.5 day minimum)

4. By far, who is the best installer here in manila for the CRV?

I think Macro... but they are also the most expensive by nearly 50% in price of the same LPG kit. So you just end up paying for the brand more than anything else. Other DTI-certified auto-LPG installers can also install kits with the same care to quality as Macro.

5. Can I still retain the back row seats after installing the donut type LPG tank?

GREENFUEL has done CRV installations where they install brackets to adjust the 3rd row seats slightly higher to clear the donut tank. The result is you retain the 3rd row seats and the use of the flat rear area for cargo as well. All you lose is the space under the floor which goes to the donut fuel tank.

[ghosthunter]

[SIZE="1"]The final laugh against Ringostarr (aka OldBlue) is when he sells his CR-V (or converts it to auto-LPG) because it simply guzzles too much gasoline to keep it.[/SIZE]

[mcgrath]

thanks for the quick reply boss ghost hunter.

[ezem]

people who are talking about things not supported by facts are just like a sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal. natatawa lang ako pag nabla blanka yung mga banat ng "haka-haka" vs mga facts hahaha i love this forum

[chuaed]

its been a while since my last post... anyway, i'm dismayed with the people at NAIADSS... I visited their shop at sheridan at 2 PM a week ago, and fill up my car with LPG, most of their pumps are not working, so i have to wait in line while the taxies who first arrived are being filled with fuel. while waiting, i went to their mechanic and told them that my fuel consumption is quite high compared before, note: its been almost a year since i last visited their shop.

the mechanic told me that they're on a break and will go for lunch, try comming back later... i said, okay... so after filling up i left and went back at 3:30 PM and park my car... after parking my car, i saw one of the mechanic who i talked to earlier is lying on a bench, texting aparently he saw me so i just waited for him to get up and approach me... but instead he ignored me, just lying there like i wasn't there. then the other mechanic which also saw me, place a plywood on the floor and sat there, eventually he lye there... after waited for 15 minutes for them to get up and check my car which they didn,t do so with disgust i just left...

after i left, i was thinking that i should have rev my car so that they can breathe my exhaust, since my tail pipe was pointing toward them... tsk tsk... inis lang...

then i go straight to mandaluyong and try finding green gas which eventually i found it and to my suprise, the mechanic there used to work at NAIADSS... i asked for Warren to inquire regarding upgrading to SGI but he's not around anyway their mechanic showed me the parts for SGI, apparently all the existing parts from Naiadss need to be replaced which i summized that it will cost roughly the same as installing the entire kit...

NAIADSS aftersales service SUCKS BIG TIME!!!
ano iyan hanggan bentahan lang kayo magaling? pag may problema eh wala na kayo pakialam?

[blue_gambit]

sir ghosthunter gud day!, i'd like to ask you a question regarding the lpg conversion system you have.

1st, is your car efi or carb?

2nd, if its efi did they use an efi piggy back or emmulator to adjust your ignition timing and cope with difference of lpg vs. gasoline?

3rd, how is lpg fed in your car? is it through a separate port in the intake manifold or through the same with your gasoline fuel?

4th do you use a pin valve (connected to the accelerator) to control the amount of lpg going into your engine?

your answer will be well appreciated. kung pede me pix din sir. i'm sweriously considering/studying this conversion thank you

[SIZE=1]The final laugh against Ringostarr (aka OldBlue) is when he sells his CR-V (or converts it to auto-LPG) because it simply guzzles too much gasoline to keep it.[/SIZE]

[bigMIKE]

then i go straight to mandaluyong and try finding green gas which eventually i found it and to my suprise, the mechanic there used to work at NAIADSS... i asked for Warren to inquire regarding upgrading to SGI but he's not around anyway their mechanic showed me the parts for SGI, apparently all the existing parts from Naiadss need to be replaced which i summized that it will cost roughly the same as installing the entire kit...

The SGI system is totally different from a conventional system. The SGI system has an ECU and gas injectors which a conventional system does not. The only thing you can salvage if you really want to upgrade is the copper pipe and the filling valve and the tank as the NAIIADs system is a korean system that is not compatible with the European system.
However you should also consider that dismantling time and labor as well. So all in you do not save by upgrading the system. That is why when we install a system we give our recommendation based on the pros and cons of each of the system and let the customer ultimately decide what suits him best.
Oh yes, one of our mechanic was from Naiiads but I assue you his work ethic is Greenfuels' work ethic.
Apologies from Warren for not being there you had scheduled with him sometime last week and he actually waited for you till 7 pm but you did not show up. He hopes to see you next time.

[ghosthunter]

sir ghosthunter gud day!, i'd like to ask you a question regarding the lpg conversion system you have.

1st, is your car efi or carb?

2nd, if its efi did they use an efi piggy back or emmulator to adjust your ignition timing and cope with difference of lpg vs. gasoline?

3rd, how is lpg fed in your car? is it through a separate port in the intake manifold or through the same with your gasoline fuel?

4th do you use a pin valve (connected to the accelerator) to control the amount of lpg going into your engine?

your answer will be well appreciated. kung pede me pix din sir. i'm sweriously considering/studying this conversion thank you

1. efi engine

2. installer used an emulator to disable the stock EFI injectors without triggering the car's check engine light when the car is running on LPG.

3. LPG is fed through a venturi mixer attached to the engine's intake manifold

4. there is no direct connection between the accelerator to a "pin valve". LPG feed is (probably) controlled by the vacuum pressure inside the intake manifold and LPG flow control settings.

Note: my auto-LPG system is an older open loop venturi mixer with efi emulator kit. It is basically the same kit used for carburated engines.

[ghosthunter]

its been a while since my last post... anyway, i'm dismayed with the people at NAIADSS... I visited their shop at sheridan at 2 PM a week ago, and fill up my car with LPG, most of their pumps are not working, so i have to wait in line while the taxies who first arrived are being filled with fuel. while waiting, i went to their mechanic and told them that my fuel consumption is quite high compared before, note: its been almost a year since i last visited their shop.

If you are handy under the hood, you can actually do the adjustments yourself. Just observe which screws they turned and in what directions. When you are doing it, count your turns so you can set it back to where you started.

But if you don't have the confidence, better leave it to someone else who does know what he is doing.

Sometimes the culprit for higher fuel consumption for mixer kits is a dirty engine air filter. Simply cleaning it is not enough. You will have to replace it. This is especially true if you have a cone type racing filter (K&N, Simota, etc). Currently I am using a sponge type filter which seems to be working well. Hopefully it can be cleaned better than the paper/cotton type cone filter.

then i go straight to mandaluyong and try finding green gas which eventually i found it and to my suprise, the mechanic there used to work at NAIADSS... i asked for Warren to inquire regarding upgrading to SGI but he's not around anyway their mechanic showed me the parts for SGI, apparently all the existing parts from Naiadss need to be replaced which i summized that it will cost roughly the same as installing the entire kit...

Upgrading our current mixer kits to SGI simply means almost totally replacing it, no way around it. An alternative is asking DENSO/EROOM to "upgrade" our open loop kits to closed loop. Even then, I think I remember it would still cost at least P10K to get the upgrade conversion done. And there is no guarantees there would be any detectable improvements in power or fuel mileage.

[betz86]

I've been to this thread for a long time and I wanted to convert my CRV gen2 to LPG. I've researched enough and I found out that LPG is used around the globe like in UK, Australia, Korea..etc. I also read somewhere that Aussies are giving away cash incentives for those who convert because it helps decrease pollution in the environment. My only problem is the price for the SGI kit. It is really BIG for me this time.. is there a company that accepts credit cards? because I dont think I can save up that much asap when prices of everything are getting high..

with regards to Ringostarr..

Dude, if you have nothing good to say about this topic, then keep it for yourself. Don't just criticize because you even haven't tried using LPG and besides, if you're concerned about these "green" stuff, then might as well not use your car. Almost but not all gas burned emit harmful gas in air but LPG emits less harmful gases than regular fuel and that's a fact. If you don't believe then don't use LPG. You just have to ask on this thread and decide. Nobodys convincing you.

[webmiester]

how come some people call LPG green fuel? the problem lang naman wilh ordinary gasoline and diesel and sa sobrang decades na ginagamit sobrang dami na talaga nilabas sa atmosphere

LPG will follow the same path too kung madami na gagamit nito, sooner or later we will be dealing with another toxic chemical in the atmosphere

same reason why hindi inaccept ng buong mundo ang natural gas. scientists found out that mas harmful pa pala ang ilalabas nito sa atmosphere pag tumagal-tagal compared to oridnary gasoline

labo naman, cheaper doesn't mean it's green. at times, mas delikado pa nga ang cheap kasi hindi napag-aralan husto, and the only reason why it's being associated with green is bec. yun na nga nakakatipid ka

Now, there is this thing regarding oil companies' marketing strategies and where we get our information...

A few years ago, diesel was touted as a "dirty" fuel, but today, in the US, the new "greener car" solutions they've been concocting uses diesel because it is said to be "cleaner" with less Sox emmissions than gasoline...

A recent newspaper article I read somewhere (sa inquirer yata or a helath mag) stated that a company did simulation studies in LA which concluded that there will be increased asthma incidents if everyone were to shift to E15 (gasoline + 15% alcohol)... the alcohol + gasoline concoction is also being touted today as a "green fuel"...

I must admit that one problem we have is that we dont actually run the tests ourselves and that we are getting our information from other people whether through the net, print, or other media... This leads us to the problem that our info can be "manipulated" by those in the industry to make something look better or worse... For instance, in the case of the E15 studies, it was pointed out that although alcohol had lesser CO2, NOx, and SOx emmissions, they also have higher Ozone emmissions which causes asthma. This piece of info was not being told to us by those who make alcohol based fuels. Likewise, proponents against E15, may zero in on this info and blow it out of proportion so that this product will be discredited.

In the case of LPG, the current belief is that it has less CO2 emissions, it is marketed as "green" because of this. It may be releasing other emissions in greater or lesser quantities than its other substitutes, or it may even have other types of gases which we are not detecting or reporting yet.

Just to give you an example of how this info manipulation works, we can just look at politics. If everything politicians were saying were true in their campaigns, the Philippines would be extra progressive today. In their campaigns, they highlight and exaggerate their good qualities, hide the bad ones, then destroy their opponents by emphasizing their opponents weaknesses/faults.

Fuels being probably an even bigger market than government contracts, have the same possibility. Oil companies can always exaggerate the good points of one particular fuel to increase their sales of that particular product. Since even those who write on the internet must rely on studies and statistics given out by oil companies, what we know may be at their mercy, and the best part of it is that we dont know that we are. The power of the internet made us feel that we have access to soooooo much information, which is true, but it is hard for us to really dicern which of this info was not manipulated to favor someone or something. You're info on natural gas not being accepted due to its environmental implications, if true, is such an example.

The labelling of "green" and "environmentally-friendly", is one way marketing people may appease our minds. Their label makes us feel that lpg is "good" for the environment when in fact it isnt. The least it can do is be less environmentally harmful (due to decreased CO2 emissions), but that is very different from "environmentally friendly". I think the only true "environmentally friendly" transport is walking, or maybe riding a horse, where the horse's by product (dung) becomes organic fertilizer.

So, even if we do shift to lpg because we want to be "less environmentally harmful" (as we believe as of the moment), it isnt the only thing we can do. We still need to stick to the basics to help decrease our environmental destruction:

1) Carpooling
2) Use the car only as necessary
3) Use the shortest route possible
4) Keep engine well maintained
5) proper disposal of used motor oil, bulbs, and other stuff
6) and things like that...

It probably isnt a mortal sin to shift to lpg because we thought it was environmentally better than gasoline... but for those of us who do, it might be useful to remember our limitations, and remember that since we are human, even this thought might not be as correct as we believe it to be.