New Montero Sport 4x4, Fortuner 3.0 4x4 or Sta. Fe 4x4.

[lui]

For the sake of would be passengers in the third row which of which has more room?

dito nalang ako sasagot medyo malalim na ang talakayan regarding 3rd row parang mas maluwag sa montero sport vs santa fe. ewan ko lang din pero un talaga ang feeling ko nung sumakay ako sa 3rd row ng montero sport. sa fortuner naman d pako nakasakay sa 3rd row

[xTrememan]

A eh makikisingit lang po.... Ako naman po ay isang happy owner ng Hyundai Sta. Fe 4X2...

Sa totoo lang po wala akong reklamo sa sasakyan ko "as of the moment" kase maganda ang performance nya. Except nga lang po sa kulang ang passenger airbag. Kaya lagi kong pinapag-seatbelt kapag may katabi akong pasahero.

Actually ang FC naman minsan din depende mismo sa ugali natin magmaneho. Kung gigil ka umapak sa gas or bigla bigla ka prepreno at aarangkada, definitely tataas ang FC mo kase the engine uses more power di po ba?

On the other hand, maganda rin naman ang performance ng cars ng Mitsubishi kase we had our series of Pajeros before kaya lang napansin namin na in less than two years, maitim na ang usok na binubuga ng tambutso... Ngayon po ba kamusta na ang diesel engine cars ng Mitsu?

Yun lang naman po ang aking opinyon... Salamat po.

So far Mitsubishi's Di-D engines are doing well just like whats on their tagline "drive*earth." Unlike Toyota's D4D starting to build bad reputations for its smoke belching innovas and SOME 2.5L D4D Fortuners... omaygahd. ^^

Pero as of now kahit may mga nagsusulputan na mga bagong diesel engines Hyundai pa din sa tingin ko ang may magandang reputation sa mga diesel engines nila especially some of their cars have low engine displacements but have great horsepower and torque... tipid nga siguro sa gas yun. Pero since its a Hyundai... well iba pa din para sakin ang mga Japanese brands. Hehehe! I still like the new Montero Sport. Sana may 2.5L variant na sila.

[XTO]

dito nalang ako sasagot medyo malalim na ang talakayan regarding 3rd row parang mas maluwag sa montero sport vs santa fe. ewan ko lang din pero un talaga ang feeling ko nung sumakay ako sa 3rd row ng montero sport. sa fortuner naman d pako nakasakay sa 3rd row

thanks lui, since medyo particular ako sa 3rd row seat and cargo space when needed. baka may idea ka sa lapad at haba, ano ba difference nila?

[niky]

[SIZE=2]G[SIZE=2]ood answe[/SIZE]r but not that good as what I’ve been expecting from a guru… I have only two questions but unfortunately you failed to directly answer them. Let me repeat them but this time with additional comments.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Regarding the FC. All the vehicles that I mentioned traveled the same routes. The way we are measuring the FC is putting a full tank and fill it again (full tank) to know how many liters are consumed during the travel. This is also an accurate method in measuring the FC.[/SIZE]

If that's your experience, that's your experience. I can't counter that except to say that in my experience, the Santa Fe 2.2 drinks less gas than the 4x4 Fort and Everest... which is what we're comparing it to. I'm willing to believe the 2.5 D4D is economical, as it has been in my experience, but we have yet to perform a direct comparison... in terms of highway driving, I have not yet seen a case where the 2.5 D4D or TDCi have outperformed the 2.2 CRDi.

[SIZE=2] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]1)So why is the Grand Starex (Current model) is bouncier compared than the old one considering that they have same platform but are different in suspension?

Old Starex has Double Wishbone suspension (ride is better than the new one)
New Starex has the Macpherson one (you can really feel the bumps on the roads. Even small bumps)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Have you tried riding the new Grand Starex? If you haven’t then I will tell you my observations… In the new Starex, the ride is stiffer than the old one, and you can easily feel the small bumps on the road unlike the old one which is softer and not that bouncy than the new one. So can you explain again, this time forget about the WEB. Stop copying and pasting to avoid long replies again… [/SIZE]

Ouch. I've been accused of many things... but copy-pasting? You obviously don't know me too well. :hysterical: Besides:

(Additional info on Fort & Eve) Double wishbone suspension, and to a lesser extent Macpherson-struts, keep the wheel at a near perfect angle to the road as it moves up and down over bumps - which is good for on-road handling. They do have some disadvantages off-road: they may not be as robust as a live axle, the lower wishbone hangs low and reduces ground clearance, and the differential (attached to the chassis) dips under braking which reduces ground clearance at a critical time.[/B]?

http://www.4wdonline.com/A.hints/Suspension.html

Double wishbone suspension, and to a lesser extent Macpherson-struts, keep the wheel at a near perfect angle to the road as it moves up and down over bumps - which is good for on-road handling. They do have some disadvantages off-road: they may not be as robust as a live axle, the lower wishbone hangs low and reduces ground clearance, and the differential (attached to the chassis) dips under braking which reduces ground clearance at a critical time.

Whoops. Looks familiar. When I do want to copy-paste, I follow the tsikot rules and place my copy-pasted text inside a text box, with a citation and link to the source text.

The new Starex feels bouncy because they overcompensated for the extra weight with extra stiffness. Add the bigger wheels and tires, and it's bad. It's a trend in new cars, unfortunately.

But the old Starex was just wretched. C'mon... I've driven one to Baguio, to Lipa and around Alabang. Of course it feels great on smooth pavement with small bumps (which it absorbs with ease), but once you're at highway speeds or going over moon craters, it feels like crap.

[SIZE=2]2) So what’s the logic behind putting a small engine that is powerful but yet its not fuel efficient? Is it true that we are putting more stress in the engine and in the end can shorten its life?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]In you previous message, you mentioned that the Santa Fe has the best engine (small, yet powerful). Can a small yet powerful engine can be an advantage against the competition considering same Fuel Consumption? I think that if you tuned a small engine to provide more power you are just putting stress in it thus shortening its life.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2] [/SIZE]

Typically, a small engine will only be more stressed if you're revving it harder to go. The Santa Fe's engine isn't particularly stressed for a 2.0... most modern 2.0 CRDis make the same power or more... if you want a high-stressed diesel, look at BMW... they're building 170+ hp 2.0s.

If you want an understressed diesel, you can still buy the Crosswind. Actually, that kind of validates your point... the Crosswind's anemic motor has a reputation for being long-lived... and Americans swear by big motors that live a long time...

But powerful small motors can still be durable... it just depends on the tuning and the type. In terms of tuning, Hyundai's diesel motors seem to be durable... their only problem is that performance seems to degrade over time due to our poor fuel, but they're not as sensitive to it as Toyotas, which just die. (hopefully, this final iteration of the Denso pump will crack this problem)

[LadyRider]

^^^ Amen to that Sir Niky!

[alainroyce]

Can i change the title of this thread? Battle of the Guru's.. (Joke) This is good to everybody,specially to the car owner that has no idea what kind of vehicle they have.. well said Niky & FBSS!

[ferdine]

Typically, a small engine will only be more stressed if you're revving it harder to go. The Santa Fe's engine isn't particularly stressed for a 2.0... most modern 2.0 CRDis make the same power or more... if you want a high-stressed diesel, look at BMW... they're building 170+ hp 2.0s.

Agree with Sir Niky on this. Palibhasa maliit ang makina ay hindi ibig sabihin na mas stressed sya compared to bigger displacement engines of same output. Hindi rin naman siguro bobo ang mga engineers mag design ng makina na wala sa safe operating envelope. In fact, lately I've read an article that Nissan Japan released a new version of Xtrail with 2liter clean diesel engine rated *171hp. So looks like in the future ganito ang trend. Hindi nga lang tayo nagbabayad ng carbon tax pero sa ibang bansa na you have to pay taxes on the volume of your emission, lamang talaga ang smaller displacement engines with more HP. Ipagpalagay nalang natin na meron tayong batas sa Pinas na magbayad tayo ng buwis corresponding on how much gases our cars emit palagay ko magiisip ng husto ang buyer bago bibili ng 3.2liter car kung meron siyang makita na 2.2 liter that can do the same job.

[xTrememan]

Whew... its getting hot! But infairness im getting a lot of info from reading this thread. If many are planning to buy one of the above mentioned SUV's im sure they have a pick right now. ^^

[FBSS]

(hopefully, this final iteration of the Denso pump will crack this problem)

NIKY: If that's your experience, that's your experience. I can't counter that except to say that in my experience, the Santa Fe 2.2 drinks less gas than the 4x4 Fort and Everest... which is what we're comparing it to. I'm willing to believe the 2.5 D4D is economical, as it has been in my experience, but we have yet to perform a direct comparison... in terms of highway driving, I have not yet seen a case where the 2.5 D4D or TDCi have outperformed the 2.2 CRDi.

MY ANSWER:
Nicky, so you’re correct that my experiences are my experiences then why react? Ehem! Etc... in your previous post. Why do I need to straighten my facts when I just mentioned that it was based on my experiences and opinions? Do you think it’s just okay to the person who will receive your message? Too much pride man... Too much pride. Always remember that there’s always someone greater than you. You’re not that good as what you’re thinking. There are plenty of loopholes in your messages but I will not bother pointing them out anymore since it’s out of the topic and just a waste of time.

NIKY: You obviously don't know me too well.

MY ANSWER:
Well sorry I don’t really know you... I don’t see any problem with that since you’re not a Hollywood Star, a celebrity or any other popular entities out there. So I’m sorry man you’re just a simple guy in the neighbourhood trying to prove things in his own way.

But let me guess, are you a Sales Agent who’s trying to put extra flavour in their products just to look, feel and taste good?

NIKY: Whoops. Looks familiar. When I do want to copy-paste, I follow the tsikot rules and place my copy-pasted text inside a text box, with a citation and link to the source text.

MY ANSWER:
Man, do you really know how to read? Or do you have an English tutor beside you while reading a message?... In my message, I didn’t write (My additional info on Fort and Eve) so I thought you will understand that instantly assuming you’re a person with high IQ.

NIKY: The new Starex feels bouncy because they overcompensated for the extra weight with extra stiffness. Add the bigger wheels and tires, and it's bad. It's a trend in new cars, unfortunately.

MY ANSWER:
[SIZE=2]Extra weight? I thought you already tried driving an Isuzu. i.e. like the crosswind, the more heavy the load is, the more stable is the ride. It’s exactly the opposite way around. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Extra stiffness? So what’s the probable cause of being stiff? One more question, do you know what’s the use of this formula? Can you explain it to me?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][SIZE=5]Ss = K (8FDm/3.1416 (Dw3))[/SIZE] ???[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Bigger wheels and tires can affect bounciness? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]205/70 R 15 – For the old Starex[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]215/70 R 16 –For the new Starex[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]Man with little difference as stated above, they are almost negligible which can’t affect bounciness. I will only agree you on the bounciness thing if we put size 20+ rims. Sorry man I strongly disagree with you on this one...[/SIZE]

NIKY: But the old Starex was just wretched. C'mon... I've driven one to Baguio, to Lipa and around Alabang. Of course it feels great on smooth pavement with small bumps (which it absorbs with ease), but once you're at highway speeds or going over moon craters, it feels like crap.

MY ANSWER:
If this is your evaluation/ opinion then I respect you on this. I will just leave this thing with our fellow Starex owners. I know there are many out there who can relate to this since there are too many Starex owners who are still enjoying their 3rd gen Starex rather than the 4th gen one. But I have to admit that Hyundai Vans are the best in the market today even if the new one is bouncy. (Sorry if out of the topic)

I still prefer a double wishbone suspension which is fitted in the old starex since it rides better compared to the new one with Macpherson suspension set up.

NIKY: Typically, a small engine will only be more stressed if you're revving it harder to go. The Santa Fe's engine isn't particularly stressed for a 2.0... most modern 2.0 CRDis make the same power or more... if you want a high-stressed diesel, look at BMW... they're building 170+ hp 2.0s.

If you want an understressed diesel, you can still buy the Crosswind. Actually, that kind of validates your point... the Crosswind's anemic motor has a reputation for being long-lived... and Americans swear by big motors that live a long time...

But powerful small motors can still be durable... it just depends on the tuning and the type. In terms of tuning, Hyundai's diesel motors seem to be durable... their only problem is that performance seems to degrade over time due to our poor fuel, but they're not as sensitive to it as Toyotas, which just die. (hopefully, this final iteration of the Denso pump will crack this problem)

Common Man is this the best you’ve got? I can only expect a mechanic to answer like this? Sorry man but I can’t help but to comment in this way. Your comments have no basis actually. For me they are all based on assumptions.

Any man with an understanding of Diesel Engines can find good and bad arguments for any type of engine. The greatest assurance of success lies not in the type of an engine, but in the details of design, materials, and workmanship. An engine should therefore be as conservatively rated in speed and Mean Effective Pressure as the purchaser afford to use. Crowding a high horsepower rating into a given engine lowers the cost per horsepower and shortens the life of the engine. Every step in the direction of simple design, if proved successful, is an advantage for the purchaser.

If you still don’t believe this, then I suggest that you go back and study the Power Plant Engineering in order for you to understand what I mean and also to have additional knowledge regarding Diesel Engines.

Well I guess it’s time to end this argument since it’s going nowhere. I’ll just continue enjoying Tsikot. Continue reading and learning new things about new rides etc...

For me Tsikot is great and very useful so I hope that only premium info should be fed in Threads in order to give our fellow Tsikoters an accurate data on every new and old vehicles in the market. But I would also like suggest to test drive the vehicle yourselves in order to know and feel the ride first hand...

To the thread starter, sorry if I populate this Thread but I guess it worth to justify what you experienced and believed in. Cheers to you man! Montero Sport is darn beautiful! hehehe

[chikas123]

There some things that a Fortuner, Everest ,Alterra and the new Montero Sport have in common.

[SIZE=4]1. All of them are upgraded pick-up trucks.[/SIZE]

- They are all pick-up trucks that are later upgraded with expensive, top of the line (CAMPERSHELLS, CARRYBOY, etc.) which are professionaly installed to their rears. Marketing Mix

[SIZE=4]2. None of them are considered as JDM or USDM. [/SIZE]

- We all know that the following suvs are not made/assembled from the country which their company/manufacturer are based on.

[SIZE=4]3. None of those SUVs can be seen in the roads of their own country.[/SIZE]

- Go figure.