Honda City vs Honda Jazz and CVT vs Manual Tranny

[niky]

RE: CVT...yup, possibly won't last that long. My cousin says it smells like fried clutch if you drive really hard and fast.

But I expect replacement cost will be bearable... probably around the same as clutch replacement. And as the belt is the wear item, the gears should remain impeccable for decades to come.

[maverickjazzy]

Crosswind: - the barest of the bare models is 739k pesos. But in your budget, you can buy a secondhand 1-2 year old Crosswind. The engines are pretty durable, so there's no problem with them secondhand. Kaya lang, yeah, they ride badly, and they feel really cheap.

Plus, handling and braking are just so-so.

But Crosswinds last a hell of a long time. My dad is still using an old Highlander, and it's still good. Our XUV has 90,000 kms on it already. Original battery, still starts on the first click. Original springs and shocks (but I'm aching to upgrade... tagtag!) are still good... Medyo worn down ang mga ibang interior pieces (loose na ang gearshift, but 90,000kms of traffic? expected) but overall, it still runs great.

It's not a nice car at all, but it's a very sound investment. If you're looking to keep it for many years, an AUV will be a very good buy... even better than an L300...

Medyo nakakatakot nga ang used, but if you're a careful buyer, you can get a good deal. For me, spending a little extra and getting an AUV will do wonders for your budget down the road. Just don't get your oil changed at the Isuzu casa... it's expensive...

Kia Rio / Hyundai Matrix - reliability of Hyundai Kia is still a question mark, but it's a hell of a lot better than before, and the warranties are good. The Rio is small, and buying it is just like buying a City... but it's got the bonus of being cheaper, and it's still all-power. The Matrix is actually as spacious as a compact sedan... only thing I don't like is the easy-to-scratch cheap plastics. I admit, it's a gamble to buy these cars, but so far, I've heard nothing but good things about the Getz and Picanto, which share the same basic engines and parts.

Admittedly, resale value is a problem, but if you want to hold on to the vehicle for a long time, you're not going to be selling anything for much at the end of ten years.

Honda lemons - Honda cars, in general, are very good, There are four 1.3 iDSi City/Jazz cars amongst relatives, and one 1.5... no problems. But irritating trim and assembly problems seem to be on the rise, as in the case of Psylocke's City, and other people's cars, where the trim is poorly fitted and the roof leaks or the dashboard rattles.

All I can say is, look over the car very carefully before you buy it, because once it leaves the showroom, you'll have a hard time fixing such issues. This goes for any car that you may buy.

Suzuki APV- just asked my clubmate about the mileage, it's 10 km/l, mixed city/highway. In fast driving and short trips, arond 7 km/l. Maybe 8 km/l in regular commuting. (he only goes to the provinces or around the village, so he's not sure.)

Not bad, but everything else listed here is much better.

sir niky maraming salamat po sa mga suggestions mo. ang problem ko lang mas lalo akong nahirapan magdecide.

[CVT]

First, get the CVT version,- a different(surreal) driving experience.

Then between City and Jazz,- Jazz is way up there both in aesthetics and function.

But with 6 people riding during the weekends? Consider another vehicle (not car)....


:starwars:

[Psylocke]

RE: CVT...yup, possibly won't last that long. My cousin says it smells like fried clutch if you drive really hard and fast.

But I expect replacement cost will be bearable... probably around the same as clutch replacement. And as the belt is the wear item, the gears should remain impeccable for decades to come.

AFAIK the belt and pulleys are replaced as a set. This is not cheap at all...

and Honda wouldn't say how much, obvious why

[orly_andico]

according to this article i read $5000 - $6000 ang cost of replacing a CVT tranny in a small car (e.g. not an Audi). including 15 hours of labor. Since labor is about $100/hour in the US, that means mga nasa $3500 yung cost ng CVT tranny. that's about 150,000 pesos!!!

di naman nagkakaiba yung price ng car parts dito and sa US. pero the CVT tranny will last 150,000 kilometers daw even if "driven hard." pero since Pinas ito, i would guess 75,000 to 100,000 kilometers is a safer bet. and yes, they don't sell just the belts.

siguro by the time the current crop of Fits will need replacement trannies, meron nang replacement belt si Dayco, and the resourceful Pinoy will find a way to dismantle the CVT tranny and put it back together.

[niky]

150,000 pesos at 150,000 kilometers? Hmmm... that'd be 1 peso per km... not bad...

Besides, I know a lot of people who've had tradtional automatics go bang! within those ranges.

I do believe that replacing the pulleys would be excessive. A belt replacement at 20-30 k sounds like the more reasonable course.

You could, of course, just save the money and buy a manual... :idea:

[orly_andico]

*niky,

actually you're right, under Philippine conditions most slushboxes give up the ghost at around the 100,000 km mark.

note the 150,000 km rating for a CVT is First World conditions. Those are places where a 50,000-mile ( = 80,000 km ) car is still pristine. hence i think a CVT here would more likely last around 100,000 km.

i think however that belt replacement every 30,000 km is excessive. it's a bloody labor-intensive task, so the car manufacturers don't want that short a service interval. i'm sure the CVT belts are same technology as timing belts, only beefier.

[starbutt]

i am not sure with jazz. i suppose it is built somewhere else. but as to 2006 city, it is as lemon as before, as i have written somewhere else in this site.

my wify got a 1.5 city at on company car plan a few weeks back. on the fourth week, the dashboard began making a sound (we already told the dealer about our concern on this issue; the answer was that it was already addressed at the plant; when we confronted him about the dashboard, he said that he would ask the technicians do some insulating job to remedy it when we have the car checked on its 1,000th km).

the other day, we discovered that the rear windows (both sides) would not fully open and just this night, some parts (interior) fell off from somewhere else we do not know (thus, we cannot put them back). we know that those issues could be fixed, but those also show that that honda worksmaship still sucks. aggravating this is the fact that you can not have it repaired somwhere else other than with honda.

the machine is good (although i have yet to confim if it is true that 1.5 at's efficiency is up to 14kms per liter for city driving; the best that I could so far is 10.5 kms per liter on controlled pedalling) but the body work is LOUSY. If you buy city a/t or m/t (or any other honda car?), expect some disappointments, which you are not suppose to experience since after shelling-out huge money. there is no perfect car but better safe than sorry.

as a disappointed customer, i would not recommend honda. sorry. (mukhang nahihiya rin ata yong salesman kasi di niya deniliver sa amin yong plate number. iniwan na lang sa fleet group of my wify's company. ipinamukha talaga namin sa kanya ang problema, kasi he assured us of honda quality. ngek!)

[swimstroke]

CVT para kahit papaano bawas ang stress sa pagmamaneho. Mostly city driving ka naman. :D

[masterjoe619]

Go for the Jazz 1.5 para mas malakas ang hatak.

Hindi naman siguro lahat ng honda "LEMON" nagkataon lang cguro kay master psylocke. Parang nung pumunta kani sa Panasonic dito sa Cainta (Fieldtrip namin 2001) 13% daw nang production may defects hindi raw napeperfect.