Why no proper coupe for BMW?

[niky]

naniwala ka naman dun... sa price nun veyron impossible na hindi sila kikita dun...

300 units sold at 1.5M (base) each...
=$450M

less 10% for dealer's cut... (45M)
less 10% for marketing (45M)
less 35% for Cost of GOODS SOLD (157.5M)
less $56.25M for labor expenses (150p x 5 years * $75,000(avg) per year)*
less $20M for misc expenses
less $50M (est) for R&D
---------
=$373.75M

450M - 373.75M
= 76.25M
less 30% tax... 22.875M

= 53.375M just for 300 cars? not bad!


*bloated average yan... imagine 150 ang tao na gagawa at may sweldo ng 4.125M pesos a year or 343,750 a month...

You forget, the R&D, development, reliability and quality testing and tooling up for the car all add up to a total cost of around 1 billion dollars (or euros? Not sure)... thus, subtract another,say... 671.25 M (includes everything but dealer's cut) from your 450 M... which gives you, say... -221.25 M, which is which is -266.25 M, which is how much unrecoverable money VW spent on the Veyron... at a minimum. A better estimate would be around 500M to 750M unrecoverable cash spent on this white elephant in its protracted, costly and controversial development.

_________

Given that the new 911s are more GT and less stripped-down sportscar than the original 911s, the M6 fits the role of Porsche competitor quite nicely. Then new Z4 Coupe and M-Coupe are quite squarely targetted at the Cayman/Boxster market, also.

And BMW did have their "halo" performance car... the McLaren F1. Since there's still a good buzz about this car floating in the air, I don't think they're in want of an image-boosting supercar anytime soon. Anyway, the M5 and M6 boost that image quite nicely, despite their... err... dubious looks.

[squala]

there lies your answer...

That's probably because the Z8 was simply not a likeable car. It certainly had the potential, but for one thing, it isn't beautiful. A lot of rich people would choose the Ferrari just for sheer styling. The flagship roadster also didn't seem to be marketed very well. In a James Bond film, it was only driven a bit and chopped into half. So how were they supposed to win fans over?

On the other hand, it's a good thing the Z4 coupe is coming, with a choice of powerful engines to combat the Cayman.

Now going back to the 'Z6' I was talking about, it's more like filling the slot between the Z4 and the Z8, with the engine choices of the 6-Series, but smaller, lighter, more agile, and sharper. Like I said, the 6-Series itself is too big to be a pure GT despite being marketed as such. It's closer to a luxury 2-door than a true sports car. And personally, it isn't really justifiable over a 5-Series. The M6, for instance, is around 15K pounds more expensive than an M5, with only slightly better performance, if any. You also don't have to worry about letting people work themselves in and out of the rear seats in the sedan. I like the 5-Series styling better as well.

[corbon44]

four turbos!! that veyron is something. even faster than a F1 car on a straight line.

tapos kabitan din nila ng apat na khaos, hataw lalo yun! (hehehe, joke!)

...another way to put it, people who buy BMWs are not exactly the same people who would buy Porches, and if ever he does want them both, he could and would probably rather have a BMW AND a Porsche.

[squala]

If you watched a recent Top Gear episode, they compared a 911 Carrera S to an M6 and the new Aston V8. The Porsche had less power, but perfect chassis balance and a smaller, lighter body got it through a twisty mountain road around 10 seconds quicker than the BMW, which had more than 100 hp. They quoted that it's not just power, but power you can use. By the way, the Porsche is the cheapest.

What I'm getting at here is that BMW can do it, and why not try? They've got the technology anyway. Porsche itself tried to cater to others with the Cayenne, but it's a joint venture with Volkswagen. BMW need not tie up with any other manufacturer to build a mid-class GT.

Yes, they did reach out to others who wanted a BMW but cannot quite afford, so they designed the 1-Series. But who would want (or need) a RWD hatch in the first place? Hatch buyers want practicality, both in acquiring and maintaining, but the small BMW isn't exactly cheap in either aspects. It's also not that spacious, doesn't ride so nicely with run-flat tires that are made standard to do away with the space-consuming spare. In short, it's a sports car, and people who have enough to buy a 1-Series will settle with something else, perhaps a Mini, which is also co-created by BMW.

It's all about building the right models for the right people.

[empy]

maybe i can humbly reiterate what theveed, fxt, mazdamazda and others have already said:

1. it costs a lot of money (hundreds of millions? a billion?) to design a new car model from the ground up
2. they tried both high-priced (Z8) and mid-priced (M coupe) GT's. both failed miserably.
3. they are doing great with their bread-and-butter, the sport/luxury sedans (3, 5 and 7 series)
4. a car manufacturer cannot be everything to everyone and still make money.
5. yes, bmw has the tech to make a great GT car, but because of reasons 1, 2, 3 and 4 above, they choose not to. maybe someday when everybody is buying GT's like they're buying SUV's now, and their market research says they should take a billion-euro risk, they might do so...but not now.

they really have no reason to

[Hero33]

naniwala ka naman dun... sa price nun veyron impossible na hindi sila kikita dun...

300 units sold at 1.5M (base) each...
=$450M

less 10% for dealer's cut... (45M)
less 10% for marketing (45M)
less 35% for Cost of GOODS SOLD (157.5M)
less $56.25M for labor expenses (150p x 5 years * $75,000(avg) per year)*
less $20M for misc expenses
less $50M (est) for R&D
---------
=$373.75M

450M - 373.75M
= 76.25M
less 30% tax... 22.875M

= 53.375M just for 300 cars? not bad!


*bloated average yan... imagine 150 ang tao na gagawa at may sweldo ng 4.125M pesos a year or 343,750 a month...

I read somewhere it cost almost 1 or 2 billion dollars to develop.

Lubog profit. haha

[Hero33]

Mercedes and BMW both concentrate on luxury, but they deviate from there. BMW goes for the sportier drive, hence the Ultimate driving machine and why the 7 series is a bit firmer than an S Class. Benz on the other hand is luxury and comfort. Thats why a CL or S class benzs feels a bit more detached than a relative BMW. The M6 is the direct competitor of BMW for the Porsche.

Market wise at least.

I think the Z8 was beautiful. I remember it being entered in some Museum for it. It's lines so sinuous has no end in the car.

BUT it was more of a muscle car than sport.

Why not the M3 CSL?

The Porsche is just unique I think.

[squala]

About the Bugatti Veyron, its makers didn't actually profit from it. I watched Top Gear yesterday and it was said that the car was made because they wanted to find out if a 1000 hp car was indeed possible. It was a long, expensive process though. Two V8s spliced to become a W16 and 4 turbos = over 400 km/h!

As for BMW, making a real GT isn't just about profit, but also about showing the world they really could. Besides, they're in F1, and this year, they're a complete works team. already. For me, they will even gain more credibility in their products.

[Wouie]

what's a proper coupe. alam ko basta 2 doors na sports ang dating coupe ang tawag.

[theveed]

You can probably ask why BMW/MB doesn't make a $15000 econo car... they have the technology...

Answer will be pretty close to why they wouldn't build a non-gt coupe.