Audi R10 Diesel Race Car Wins Lemans. New Era In Racing?

**BlueBimmer** · August 1st, 2006 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by niky

Sorry for the terminology "attack", but the problem is, the question was answered before. BMW has not given up on diesel in racing, it's just that they have different priorities, and their innovations in racing come elsewhere, and are not as well publicized.

And while Audi's cachet is growing measurably, it's still behind BMW in sales. I have a feeling that VW's attempt to move its core brand upmarket may be hurting sales of cheaper Audis a bit. But that movement seems to have been halted with the failure of the Phaeton (honestly, they should have just kept it as an A8) and VW's recommitment to the lower end of the market.

BMW isn't lax in the arms race. Their newly developed X-Drive AWD system is pretty good. BMW's VANOS and BIVANOS is finally trickling down to the MINI division, they've got their infinitely variable length intake manifolds, they're experimenting with steam-driven supercharging, are returning to turbo as a solution to the power-economy dilemma after making advances in turbodiesel technology with their 2.0 and 3.0 turbodiesels, and are working non-stop on refining their stability control systems (considered by some as the least intrusive and best in the business).

Where they've stumbled:
I-Drive - but other makers are following them in this regard, and while difficult to use and counter-intuitive, the attempt was groundbreaking).

Run-flat tires - the introduction of run-flats on all models was hampered by poor tire design (not their fault), additional weight (the main drawback of run-flats) and suspensions designed for regular tires (which were unable to cope with the heavier, rougher tires).

Turbos - it's taken a long time for BMW to finally return to turbos, but VAG has long known of it as a way to increase power and keep fuel consumption numbers low. But BMW engines are still very efficient, nonetheless.

Audi's chips on the table:
- Fuel Stratified Injection. While Audi may claim to be direct injection pioneers, they're not the only ones who've dabbled with it (remember Mitsu's GDi systems from oh-so-long ago?)... and they're not the only ones using it now, as Mazda has it also.

Fuel Stratified Injection goes one step further by helping lean out the charge for extra economy. Unfortunately, this causes emissions that make it impractical for the US market.

- Turbodiesels. Yes, they're good. The VAG V10 in the Touareg is one of the most powerful automotive diesels ever made.

- Twincharging. Not the first, but cool, nonetheless.

Mercedes' current tech markers:

- Sensotronic brakes - cost them a lot to develop, this brake by wire system... to the tune of $140 million. But it still doesn't work right, and numerous problems have caused them to fall back on hydraulic brakes.

- Adaptive Cruise Control - despite the crash in testing, this seems like it'll be one of those things meant to trickle down to lower-end cars.

haba!

niky, why do i get the feeling you're going around in circles

**niky** · August 1st, 2006 05:39 PM

Maybe I am... I just come into these threads, read the last few posts... post a reply... then... oops... didn't I write that already? :lol:

There's not really much more that can be said about it.

**midinite** · August 1st, 2006 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by niky

Maybe I am... I just come into these threads, read the last few posts... post a reply... then... oops... didn't I write that already? :lol:

There's not really much more that can be said about it.

Thank you for saying your piece

**niky** · August 2nd, 2006 12:53 PM

de nada

**midinite** · March 23rd, 2007 01:48 PM

tambien.

hate to bring this up again guys but the Audi R10 has just won the Sebring again this year. Or so I am told. The guy said the rules supposedly were reconfigured to make it more difficult for the R10 to win but it did.

Okay so it isnt a first in terms of diesel wins. nor is it unique since our esteemed tsikoteers pointed that diesel dominates in other categories.

question is will diesel now start to figure in road racing now that there is a more consistent showing by the R10? or is it a fluke?

i dont have all the facts and figures but am just wondering and have these questions...

**Bogeyman** · March 23rd, 2007 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by midinite

question is will diesel now start to figure in road racing now that there is a more consistent showing by the R10?

The answer is pretty simple: judging by the way jeepney, truck and bus drivers make their vehicles roar in our streets and thoroughfares, diesel has long figured in road racing way before Audi realized it. :D

**midinite** · March 23rd, 2007 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Bogeyman

The answer is pretty simple: judging by the way jeepney, truck and bus drivers make their vehicles roar in our streets and thoroughfares, diesel has long figured in road racing way before Audi realized it. :D

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

ala pang aerodynamics yan...anu pa kung na wind tunnel ang mga yan.

:rofl01:

**niky** · March 23rd, 2007 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by midinite

tambien.

hate to bring this up again guys but the Audi R10 has just won the Sebring again this year. Or so I am told. The guy said the rules supposedly were reconfigured to make it more difficult for the R10 to win but it did.

Okay so it isnt a first in terms of diesel wins. nor is it unique since our esteemed tsikoteers pointed that diesel dominates in other categories.

question is will diesel now start to figure in road racing now that there is a more consistent showing by the R10? or is it a fluke?

i dont have all the facts and figures but am just wondering and have these questions...

Well, the rule-making committee has worked itself into a corner on this. They shouldn't have touched the tank size at all!

That was the only handicap... a slightly smaller fuel tank, that would force the diesel to pit more often.

They should've gone with changes in air restrictor regulations and legalize VGT turbos for the other teams (since only diesels can legally run VGT turbos) or ban them for all teams. They can't change size restrictions on the diesel blocks anymore, since other teams are working on their own diesel engines already... but they possibly should.

Why? It's simple. The diesels are allowed bigger displacements than the gas engines. However you balance the rules, big displacement equals less stress when compared to smaller engines with the same power. That's why Corvettes do so well in endurance racing, as their big 6 - 7 liter engines can run for a heckuva long time at full speed.

I still say it's the team, not the fuel. But if the other teams who are developing diesel go straight to the front at the next LeMans (I'm waiting to see how Peugeot does), then I'll concede defeat...

**midinite** · March 23rd, 2007 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by niky

I still say it's the team, not the fuel. But if the other teams who are developing diesel go straight to the front at the next LeMans (I'm waiting to see how Peugeot does), then I'll concede defeat...

maybe we should place bets to see how far peugot will go...and if it will finish with a diesel.

am just really wondering if the rest will follow as a knee jerk reaction or if they see something in the format.

**niky** · March 25th, 2007 02:32 AM

Hehe... we'll just have to wait and see.

A lot of teams must be bashing their heads against the wall... trying to figure out how to get a diesel out in time. The big hurdle is: Audi has tons of money in its LeMans program, something other players can't quite match. This isn't like F1, where you have six or seven teams willing to spend insane amounts of money to stay competitive.

That's why the rule-makers have to really step it up... re-examine the rules to balance it out.

Thankfully, if Peugeot can bring a good engine in, and soon, it may not be a one-horse race. I give them a one-in-a-million chance, though... ang galing talaga ng chassis-development ng Audi.